Should i bother restoring a zenith?
 

I posted quite a while back about my acquisition of a 1964 Zenith "roundie" that I suspected was a dog just due to the metal cabinet. Then I found out that metal cabinet sets are rarer than wood as wood was saved for whatever reason people used to save their broken TV and the metal ones got sent to the dump.

So with a grave need for space in my rather modest abode, I posted an ad in the V-K classifieds hoping to find homes for some rather nice radios and TVs that I have or had. I was disappointed at the fact that I was bombarded by inquiries on the Zenith, but almost nothing else. As a matter of fact I ended up junking or donating some really nice 50s consoles.

Anyway, I decided that since I don't have any other vintage color sets and remembering the absolutely beautiful picture that this set produced for a few hours before the color went out, that maybe it was a keeper. The thing that puzzles me is that all anyone talks about here are RCA this and RCA that with an occasional mention of other things, of which there are many AND more interesting in my opinion.

So, I am left wondering if it is worth the time and money to yank the chassis and throw in some caps, a color crystal, and replace the horizontal "efficiency" coil that seems to be dangling by its winding or other wiring. I just noticed that it is all wobbly when I put a finger on it. In previous posts some well informed members assured me that replacement would be the way to go.

I'm hoping that there are at least some Zenith fans/members that perhaps I can discuss issues with that may arise. As well there are some small cosmetic items that I would like to replace like the control door and the channel knob, which are there, but a bit tattered.

I have heard that these sets are great performers over the long haul. Supposedly RCA had a better picture (which I can't imagine from what I saw on mine), but Zenith had the quality build and many folks find them and are lucky enough to just plug them in and enjoy. I am not that lucky, but it might be an easy set to get going.
:scratch2:

Keep and restore your Zenith. It will not disappoint you. They are great sets.

We can start a "metal cabinet Zenith club"! :)

I just got done with a recap on mine, and now I'm on the hunt for a yoke. Here's a link to my thread.....

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=259958

The picture doesn't show it well, but the cabinet on mine is almost a maroon color.

i have the same zenith metal 1964 ,with a perfect crt . i will be restoring this winter.

Fix it up. I was never a fan of tin-cans but you can always
do a transplant later on. Most sets back them were plane
Janes anyways with boxy cabinets.
As far as pix goes its a matter of taste. Zenith was always
my #1 set but the best roundie pix I ever saw was on
an Admiral of all things........

73 Zeno:smoke:

RCA's get a lot of attention because so many mfr's used the RCA design and key parts. Zenith will give a great picture... if the CRT is fairly good. Good luck and have fun!

seems like there are many more rca survivors than zenith.scant few here in columbus ohio.we rarely saw a zenoth roundie in for service.many rca sets but few zeniths.the best roundie picture was hands down the zenith sets.

A low hours, CTC16X with the original Hi-Lite CRT, was pretty hard to beat.
They seemed to have a better picture than their rectangular counterparts.
I had the last of the Zenith roundies, where I installed an RCA Hi-Lite CRT, in it. Talk about the best of both worlds. :thmbsp:

metal cabinet TV's are well suited for nyc apartments

Nice thing with the Zenith is that you don't ever have to worry about charred circuit boards. I like those metal cabinets if they're in nice condition, IMO easier to keep up that a wood cabinet. At least here in WI, wood fiber is constantly on the move, so the finish literally wears itself out from expansion and contraction cycles.

Mine's a "Double-First Cousin" to Tim's...I THINK mine's a '65, though..

DEFINITELY a set worth restoring and keeping!!!

I kick myself in the a$$ every time I think about how many of those metal cabinet Zeniths I junked because nobody would buy them in the 80s. Unlike so many of the other "tin cheapie TVs", some of those Zenith metal sets were VERY high-end; Space Command 600 remote, and the 'hi fi" sound with bass & treble controls. I think those were built as easy replacements for people who had big B&W sets built into walls, and expensive custom cabinets.

I also wish I still had any of the little Zenith metal color sets (14"-16").

Charles

Thanks to everyone for encouraging me to do something with my set, and I am glad to know that there are others here for me to communicate with if I run into issues and possibly to scrounge the cosmetic goodies that I mentioned.

One person mentioned never seeing Zeniths in for service. Well, I would say that the statement speaks volumes on which is the superior build. I have always heard that Zenith made pretty bullet proof sets as compared to the other brands and were often more service friendly if service were an issue. My set has seen enough action to have had a rebuilt C.R.T. installed at some point. Seems like it is a Magnavox and I seem to recall some folks talking down on Magnavox rebuilds. MY tube however is in good shape and as I said made one of the most beautiful color pictures I have seen after about 3 decades of dormancy to the best of my knowledge. So, that should work out fine.

Like Charles, I want to kick myself for all of these sets be they metal, wood or whatnot that I scrapped back in the 80s. I was in high school electronics back then and these and some pretty neat 50s black and white sets were EVERYWHERE. Heck we had a Predicta (junk) sitting in our donation area in the classroom that nobody cared about! They (older sets) were either free or pretty cheap and to me had much more charm than what was current at the time. That is what got me into the hobby really. Just growing up in the years when these sets were say in the 70s still in regular service, and then the 80s when people were moving on to other things. TV shops were glad to find a kid like me to take some junk out of their way. I have seen truckloads of 40s-50s black and white sets loaded for the dump. It would sicken me that I couldn't save them, but my father already hated the "junk" I was filling his house with!

Anyway, again thanks to all and when the time comes I will update this thread. I have to order the horizontal efficiency coil first and make a capacitor order. I already have the color crystal that someone here sent me to hopefully get my color back. I think I will replace the paper, bumblebee, or old reddish brown drops that may be lurking. I think the electrolytics will still be usable, for a while anyway.

Certainly true around here. I watch for vintage TVs pretty carefully, and the only color roundies I have ever found are RCA. Maybe things are different on the Right Coast where old TVs (and old things in general) are more plentiful.

Phil Nelson

Hey, will you check you horizontal "efficiency" coil and see if it is rigid or sort of flopping around as if the stem is cracked or something. I have pretty much been reassured that I need to change this as I posted about being able to reach in there and noticed it being sort of wobbly. However, I have not had opportunity to discuss this with someone with the same exact set,

If you have already buttoned up the access plate on the bottom, then don't worry about it, but if not it can be reached pretty easily.

Thanks

Access plate on the bottom on mine is missing, so it's an easy check :)

What's it look like?

The metal cabinets are my favorite. The color circuitry can be a bit of work for someone used to RCA sets but the Zenith flybacks are way(!) more reliable.
The tuners on the early Zenith colors are great also!

If by some miracle the coil is still intact, i wonder if one could rig some kinda non-metallic pressure clamp to keep it that way(?).
If doable, the same could be done to preserve those blue coils on the convergence board.

That is what I have been thinking. I mean it should simply be a coil of wire with I assume an iron, movable core. If the plastic case has just hardened and cracked leaving it wobbly, I would think something like plastic epoxy or super glue would restore the structural integrity. AND if nobody has noodled with the adjustment, no further issues should exist.

Now this is saying a lot coming from someone who is asking someone else to look at theirs as for all I know they might have been wobbly from the get go, but I doubt it. Just saying I know little about it. The only reason that I found the condition is that when I brought the set home the first symptom I encountered was no high voltage along with the horizontal output tube having a red glowing plate. Not a good thing with these sets. The evidently delicate nature of the horizontal/high voltage circuitry and it's proper set up is what gives me such concern.

Anyway, tube investigation proved that almost all of the related tubes to these circuits were shot. I replaced them and then the set cam alive and seemed to be stable other than an odd sort of horizontal interference line running about 3 inches in from the left side of the raster. Not a bar, but a sort of jagged line. This line was the only thing that was less than perfect with one beautiful color picture until as I have mentioned, the color went out to black and white.

I will never forget how neat it was when I first applied full service drop voltage to the set. You could sit and watch things come to life after decades of dormancy. The most interesting was the color, which I didn't really expect to be as wonderful as it ended up being. It started as a pure black and white picture and I was pleased by sizes and linearity being spot on. Suddenly a small area near the center of the C.R.T. began showing sort of a swirl of color which slowly grew until the picture was full color. I didn't even have to mess with the Hue or other adjustments! What a good feeling!

Of course the color went away faster than it came to life, but I see that as being a minor issue. It's the power supply and sweep circuits that I think need full integrity and immediate attention. That goes for all sets really.....:thmbsp:

First, Horizontal Efficiency is stamped into the chassis on the control pot mounting flange near the end where the high voltage related tubes, cage etc. are located. There will be an obvious adjustment there which is actually horizontal linearity. Evidently "efficiency" is just Zenith's pet name.

So if you are looking at the adjustment end, then the business end is just behind the chassis steel. You can reach in from underneath and gently give this coil a feel to see if it is rigid, or if the winding portion which points straight out toward the front of the chassis is loose or "wobbly" as I call it. So, it is something about a pencil's diameter which is the adjustment shaft coming from the inner wall of the chassis and protrudes out a couple or three inches to a thumb sized winding.

Again, be gentle as the plastic in some of these old sets can fall apart pretty easily. We don't want your set to have a new problem! On the flip side, you need to know the condition of such things yourself. More than one person has told me that if this coil is indeed messed up, then you are looking at the H.O. plate (I think) or grid current problems that haunt these old color sets.

Anyway, let me know what you see, or feel, in yours. I really appreciate it. I once had a box of yokes for these sets that I had junked, but they are long gone now. Wish I had them; I would send you one!

Guess I got lucky....mine is like brand new.....

I think that if you'll be able to restore your Zenith, you'll have a great TV set! I have a wonderful roundie color Zenith Parkhurst, and it is really a great set!


However guys... :) I'm looking for a tv set too... I hope that you remember my post about the RCA Worthington. I have a nice Nordmende Spectra Color with four screens, one of the first series with tubes, that I could also use as exchange goods if somebody here on Videokarma would find a CTC7 Worthington (21RC899)... :yes:

Somehow I missed your post. So yours is like brand new you say. That means I guess that it is rigid to the touch and not sort of springy like the shaft is broken or something. By "to the touch" I mean putting your finger on the top or end of it and gently attempting to move it.

Yep, and I'm actually REALLY glad that you bumped this thread. I came across this out of a Zenith color set that I parted out this past summer. I *believe* this is a spare to the one you're looking for, yes? If so, it's yours.

This came out of the set in this photo: http://www.videokarma.org/attachment...5&d=1369873491

That one looks like the hoz hold coil.

The line in the picture is probably a barkhausen or snivet. (sp?)
Saw a few caused by hoz output tube. Dont remember any more
about them, think is was more common in the olden days.

73 Zeno:smoke:

:) Hey guys ,

Speaking of Barkhausen , does anyone remember the little magnet gadget that was supposed to mitigate it ? Not the "Damper Rings" like the Audiophile guys now use , but more like something looking kinda like an ION trap , just designed to fit around a Horizontal output tube . In all my years of TV repair "back in the day" I recall seeing 3 or 4 of them , but never experimented with any of them for fear of having my fingers THAT close to a running Horizontal Output . I presume one was to rotate this about the tube till the raggedy picture edge went away , and then tighten it into position with a little thumbscrew .

Those WERE ION traps...Most HO Tubes were about as big around as a CRT neck so it worked.

Well, the set in the photo is a few years newer, but the coil could be the same. I have the part # somewhere here in another thread and in an email, but not right in front of me. On another computer actually, but I'll get it and post it. Is there a number on that one? Thanks so much for thinking of this!

No numbers on it at all. Cap that's across the two outer terminals is a .0011 @ 400V. If you think it'll work, just PM me your address and I'll send it to you. If it works, great! If not, no harm done :)

I took a good look at mine tonight, and as much as I hate to say it; I believe Zeno is right. That is probably a horizontal hold coil. Mine is yellow plastic and much shorter. Also, the winding conductor on mine looks substantially thicker.

Thanks a ton for the effort and the offer. Mine is definitely toast though. Originally I thought that just the mount or outer shaft might be compromised, but suspicions have always led me to wonder if the actual winding was still tight, or had it loosened up. It is definitely loose or springy and that would certainly not be good in operation.

So, I will find one of those, grab a few caps, and try out that color crystal that was given to me to get the color back and I should be good to go. I may just do the non polarized caps for starters. If all works well, it will be all cosmetics afterward. I would like to find a really nice control door and a better (nice) channel selector if anyone has extras.

picture of the channel selector please

If the plastic forms are of the same dimensions you could always get his coil remove the wire from it and rewind your wire onto a good form...It takes patience, but if the wire is thick enough the risk of botching it becomes low.

I will get one a.s.a.p. I am fairly certain that the same one was used for several years.

I assume that there is an adjustable iron core to think about, but either way it goes I don't have any other forms. I am pretty certain that I can order one.

OK, I have an efficiency coil on the way! These things are going like hotcakes to somebody and from the standpoint of a retail purchase of an N.O.S. replacement, there seems to have been FOUR of these in the WWWorld! Wow! Moyer had two about a month ago and had quoted me so in an email. Thinking that I am probably the only person on Earth knocking at a supplier's door for obsolete beyond obsolete TV parts, I didn't react immediately. Should have because they are sold out! I'm thinking that these coils sat around in inventory limbo as long as I have been alive and then sold out two units in a matter of weeks. Interesting to say the least.

At any rate, someone gave me a link to another supplier who just happened to have two as well, but for $13 more. I figured I better jump on in this time or else I may never get this Zenith going due to wishy washy H.O. cathode current. So, as long as U.P.S. doesn't fail me I am good. Frankly, the guy on the phone at this place didn't seem like he cared at all if he sold something or not. Yeah, one of THOSE inside sales guys! Supposedly they no longer really sell to private citizens, so I was sort of out of line even asking to buy their product and have it sent to my house. or that's the feeling I got. He asked me about 3 times what company I worked for. Geez! I kept saying that I work for a company and I am an electronics tech for that company, but I am not buying the part for my employer. So anyway, he finally took my credit card and shipping info. He never read it back to me to insure accuracy, so I hope that works out. Sorry folks, I didn't mean to go on a rant. I am actually happy to announce progress on the Zenith. However, I did a stint once as Inside Sales for an electronics repair/supply place and we were trained to be polite, AND reassure the successful execution of the order through relaying back all of the key data. On the flip, you get a lot of tards most particularly in "parts" related sales. It's sort of the nature of the beast I have learned as I also did auto parts once which is a road that I don't even want to begin to go down here.

So, I throw in the coil and hopefully the crystal replacement for the color will work. That info is in some other thread that I wish that I could locate. I have a bag of common value orange drop caps which I hope will cover many of what I will run into. Might as well replace whatever is left, but I will probably keep the electrolytics. I'm not going to do a play by play with pics and all, but I will definitely try to throw in a few.

I thought about going and picking up that vintage RCA color bar, dot, crosshatch generator that is sitting at the antique mall for another $35, but supposedly you can get DVDs with everything needed for alignment which would be a lot easier. I love old test equipment which A. is necessary and B. is working. Can't say I would ever use old color TV equipment again as I prefer old black and white sets. So the DVD sounds like a plan!

I have an RCA generator that I think all it needs are the electrolytics , it seems to work but I have a newer b&k that's less then half the size and does the same things as the rca , I was hoping the rca had better color bars but its just like the b&k , neither produces the crosshatch and dots at the same time which is also a little disappointing , it does come in handy , I even use the crosshatch on black and white sets to get an idea of the linearity.

still no picture of the knob

mike

Sorry Mike, no picture yet. It's not a really big thing and as a matter of fact I took the knob that I have and a piece of scotch brite and it cleaned up rather well. I was surprised frankly! Now the little door that covers the controls is a different story. Mine has a few small dents and dings in it that are not going to come out. I would really like to replace that! Do you think you might have one of those if I could provide a picture?

And to everyone else looking at this thread, I got my "horizontal efficiency" coil in the mail the other day. Nice, solid N.O.S. Thordarson part. I need to get specifics on the setting of the coil which supposedly effects the horizontal output tube's cathode current. In another thread this is being discussed as far as running a remote test point for regular checks on what is supposedly a critical measurement on these early color sets. I recommended putting in a fuse holder to have the circuit protected AND as a breaking point to put an amp meter in series to make the measurement.

We (I) need to get specifics on what current measurement would be acceptable on my Zentih and figure out a good fuse size based on that. I hope to find that there is a more or less general fuse size that would work on most early color sets so that I can relay this information to others, or they will find it in this or the other thread.

I got the horizontal efficiency coil in the mail, but haven't started the project of putting it in yet. I am wondering if there is a way that I can install the coil and have it pre-set if you will, so that the current on the horizontal output tube is not crazy high. I guess I can go through getting a amp meter hooked into the cathode circuit which is evidently what needs to be done anyway to make sure that it's not too high.

But I read in another post someone saying that you want to get the current as low as possible and still have good linearity. With that being said, you would think that you could simply run a set and turn the coil down until you start to see the picture distort and then go slightly back up just to the point of having a correct looking picture. If this were correct it would be a heck of a time saver. Not to sound lazy, but I want to get the set up and running to get a better evaluation of what is going on with it, or not.

I do eventually want to put a fuse in the horizontal output circuit and that would give me a perfect place to put a meter in series with the circuit, but that's a bit down the road. Main thing is I don't want to throw this coil in and be instant red plating.

In my experience the correlation between horizontal image linearity and HO Tube cathode current is very weak at best on roundy color sets. When performing the adjustment I have not seen any change in linearity while adjusting current from previous tech's setting to the setting that would yield minimum current, but I have read that good linearity and current can be in conflict in sam's folders for some of my sets.

My advice would be to monitor the cathode current on the first power up after the change and as soon as it starts to stabilize adjust the lin coil for minimum current.
I would look at the slug position of the old coil and try to roughly achieve that in the new coil before power up.

Under a minute of redplating should not damage anything(it is when the fly begins to heat up that bad things happen). But I doubt the lin coil could produce redplating unless there were serious circuit problems.

If you seriously do not have a meter, there's a 'quick & dirty' way of dipping the efficiency coil. Connect a #44 bulb (which is rated at 250 ma) in series with either the plate or the cathode. Adjust the eff. coil for minimum brightness. The bulb should glow at signifigantly less than full brightness, indicating the current to be well below 250 ma., and in the "safe" range.

We used to carry a 'magic light bulb' adapter in the tube caddy for this purpose; just clip it in the plate lead of the tube. It was surprizing how many sets in the field were 'off the dip'. In the shop we always used a proper (analog) meter.

There was never any observable correlation between eff. coil setting and linearity.

Red plating of the tube should be avoided at all cost. It can kill the tube quicker than it can kill the flyback due to the tube's small thermal mass. I've seen HO tubes with holes melted thru the glass and the flyback was still good.