What to do on used sets?
 

I was wondering if you guys could give me a list of things you do to used sets. Right now all I do is dust them out and tweek the focus control. Is there anything more to do?

Well, on a set that seems to be working properly, do a visual on the electrolytic capacitors and change any that are bulged and/or have pus coming out of them. I'm sure others here can chime in with more.

On TV's that I used to pick up to fix and resell, I'd sometimes replace any known capacitors that fail (mainly ones in the vertical and power supply circuits) and I'd also resolder any solder connections that looked bad (that was back when I could easily get $50-$75 for a 19" TV). Now, used TV's are not hardly worth the effort and a lot of the sets I find today already work. On the ones that don't work, I do as little as I have to do to get them going. I'm sorry; but, when a used TV only brings $10-$30, I'm not spending a bunch of time and money doing "preventative maintenance" just so it will last a little longer. When all these people are willing to spend are a few dollars on a TV; then, they can deal with whatever happens or spend hundreds for a new TV with a warranty. There's been times that I've paid more for broken TV's than what I can get for working ones today.

If it were a TV I was fixing for my use, I'd replace any common failure capacitors and resolder any questionable solder connections. I'd also adjust the CRT drive/bias and focus controls, if needed.

Sage advice given. What I would do is model specific.
An example is Sonys that get a cold joint in the hoz drive,
blow hoz out, 2 power supply transistors & a fusable.
You bet I will solder that need it or not. Other common
things are best left alone til needed if ever.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I do about as much as you do. Although I may do my first cap change soon. May.......

What if I had found my childhood TV, and it doesn't work, and I really wanted it working because it was sentimental and was willing to pay you a generous amount of money, and a case of beer? ;)

It really depends on the set, stuff from the 80's will likely need nothing unless they use knobs, then they might need some cleaning and lube.

Some 70's sets like the Zenith CCII need to have the safety caps checked so you don't blow the tripler and CRT, and of course that era will need Pots and tuners cleaned.

Preventive recapping is always an option, particularly in the sweep circuits where the most problems occur. You can prevent a Vertical IC or a HO Transistor from getting destroyed with some fresh caps.

90's and up just watch them till they die then toss em.

Well, you could keep the beer; but, it you brought me an old TV and was willing to pay to get it fixed, I'd do what I could for you.

Several years ago, a guy brought me a mid '80's 19" Emerson color TV (the one with the chassis mounted sideways) for repair. He said he'd taken it to other shops and was told to throw it away. One shop told him, "throw that piece of junk in the creek and get you a real TV."

This guy didn't want a new TV, he wanted his Emerson fixed; which, I fixed and he was happy.

However, situations such as his are rare. Had he given me that same TV, I wouldn't have spent more than a few minutes and a few second-hand part on it because I would have been doing good to get more than a few dollars for a mid '80's woodgrained plastic cased TV.

One common problem I've seen on many later CRT TV's is lines and foldover at the top of the screen. This problem is almost always caused by a faulty cap in the vertical circuit. However, people will often run the set until the cap blows the vertical output IC. If they'd bring the set to me when it first started acting up, their bill would be cheaper and my job would be easier.

Good to know, now I know not to turn on my XL-100 again until I'm able to do a recap job. I fired it up for testing when I first got it and it has been sitting ever since.

When riding along with my cable providers tech (as I work for the cable company now), we went to a customers house, with foldover.

She was talking and said "oh that CRT is about to go I know", and we aren't really supposed to talk as I'm in training, but I had to tell her, it might just be capacitors and end up being an easy fix, as the TV still had a great picture, nice and sharp and bright with vibrant colors.

I don't know if she ever took my advice, but I hope she did.. Though it was a BPC TV from maybe 7 years ago, it's picture tube was strong. Just had foldover.

For as long as TV has been around, people mistakenly think that a vertically shrunken picture or no vertical deflection is a sign of a bad picture tube.

had a couple back in the lates 70s tell me emphatically,"when the front doesnt light,it a picture tube."they had an admiral solid state set with the good chassis but not so good crt.needed a tripler.i explained but they would have none of it.bought the set for 5.00.perfect cabinet and i installed a tripler the same day.set was a good piece but the crt fired up and wasnt as good as i like.installed a silvertone crt.looked really good but then along came a sylvania 25dmp22.it went in and what a picture!ran into the couple and they came and looked at the set.he noticed the dark crt right away."i told you it was a picture tube".couldnt disagree.

The sets I get from the G/W don't even need that. Of course, I buy the ones that are really clean to begin with. Sometimes, they even come with the original remote control.
You never see non-remote or knob tuned sets there. They must scrap them.

All the usual adjustments get done on the later stuff ('70s color through the '80s sets).
Grayscale and drive adjustment/balance, focus adjustment, pincushion correction, purity, convergence, vertical linearity, horizontal size if adjustable, tuner strip alignment if desperately needed.
All the little things which can take a decent CRT set and make it into a fine performer. Kind of obsessive with this.

Thanks guys for all your feedback. Very helpful, I like to collect a different era of TV then most of you. I only really collect 90's stuff, I guess because of that's the era I grew up in. But I would not pass up a 40's set.

Eric H, go ahead and toss out the 90's stuff, it will just make what I keep rarer ;-) LOL

I saved an oddball '91 set. ;) My main interest is early solid-state as that is what was common when I was a kid, but I wasn't letting this one get away.

I just picked up a Zenith CCII. I understand cleaning the pots, but what are the safety caps and how do I check them? I'm pretty handy around cars and houses but new to electronics so please bear with me. This is one set I actually paid for and I don't want any problems if it can be prevented. Thanks.

Al

What's the chassis number (or model number) on your new Zenith?

if its a ccII,just plug it in and enjoy!check for the white safety cap.thats about it.those sets are almost 40 years old and no reason why they wont last 40 more

What is "CCII"?

Chromacolor 2
Chromacolor was the trade name for Zeniths black matrix CRT
which became the standard. First was 1969 IIRC. When they
came out with there first solid state it was called Super Chromacolor.
This is known as the "flat chassis" to many & considered the best
color set ever made by anyone. They were made for C,D & part
of the E line in two major chassis designs.
Chromacolor 2 was the trade name for the next chassis.
Its the "upright" chassis & also popular. Made from E through
K line sets and poss L line ??. There were 2 major chassis designs. One for delta CRT's & another for the new EFL CTR sets. They also re arranged things & stuffed it in a nice little 13" set. After that it was System 3 chassis like your set.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Ok, I'll look for some numbers and get back to you. By "caps" do you mean capacitors? Like I said, newbie here.

It's a really good looking set, 1974 I believe. Black, chrome, woodgrain, and the front kind of looks like it's on a pedestal. The speaker is under the pedestal area. Sorry can't get any pics, I'm on the library pc. It's got a few quirks with the sound and picure (mostly when diring first 1/2 hr) that I'd like to clear up, even if I need to take it to some one from here who lives an hour or two away, that is if i can't clear them up on my own with your help.

Thanks.

Al

Once I get the glitches worked out, I hope it does run another 40 yrs : )

OK check the chassis number. Its stamped in ink on the metal part of the chassis. The sets effected were
17EC45, 19EC45 & 25EC45 runs 401 and higher.
17FC45, 19FC45 & 25FC45 all runs.
Often there is a tag on the back saying "4 lead capacitor modified"
if it has it you are OK.
Also EC chassis under run 401 have a similar problem that needs
addressing but not as critical.
Let us know what you got.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Thanks. I took the back off last night and found the following stamped ink code c 19EC45, which I see you have listed. There are a couple of tags on the back, one is too faded to read, but the other is legible. I'll check what it says when I get home.

Thanks again for your help guys!!

Al

Ok, one tag is faded and says "for all correspondence must include chassis number........" (too faded to read)

The other tag, which overlaps the first, simply gives the serial number, which is 5429025.

I was disappointed to not see the other tag you mentioned.

Al

Best find out what you have.
Look on top right side of chassis the hoz output transistor is there.
Just below the heat sink see if there is a large cap there with
4 wires. If its orange you are OK. If its white you MUST change it
before running it. If it opens the HV will go up to 40KV ++
& do a lot of damage including the CRT sometimes.

If not there its an early run. It will have IIRC 5 separate caps
marked 22-5001. One behind heat sink, 1 or 2 on flyback & the
rest on the bottom on the chassis. Again orange is good & white needs
replacing off ALL but its not as critical.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Ok, Ill take it apart and check and report my findings. Thanks again for the help. I don't want to see this thing fry.

Al

Ok. I spent a good deal of time studying this thing with it face down on my living room floor.(Padding underneath) I found the hoz output and heat sink but no large cap beneath. By cap I'm assuming a cilyndrical object (shaped like, but not neccessarily the size of, a roll of coins) with wires at each end (sorry, new b here)
I saw nothing like that. But i did see the small white caps marked 22-5001. There were at least five in and around the areas you mentioned. Where can I get these? Just unsolder and solder in new ones? How much should I pay? Any part/reference number I should ask for. What problem will replacement of these prevent?

Btw, the inside of the 63 looks way less intimidating. : o

Thanks again.

Al

+
They need to be changed, but they are not the one that can
destroy the set. Every one that goes bad causes the HV to go up by
1KV-2KV. Symptoms I remember are pix not wide enuf & foldover.
You may also get arcing at the HV tripler ( big red wire comes out
of it) focus pin at pix tube (CRT) socket & HV connector to CRT bell.
All in all they cause great stress to the horz & HV components.
Best bet is to find OEM replacements. You MUST use the right ones
or they will burn up fast. If you cant find OEM there is a capacitor
expert here but I dont remember his name.
Someone will pipe in & help you with your search.

73 Zeno:smoke:

OK, thanks.

When searching for new ones, should I search by application, or is there a number on the old caps to use?

Al

I think those caps can be replaced with orange drops (IIRC I've seen it) or film caps of the same capacitance and the same or higher voltage rating...unless there was some special additional component baked in that I'm not aware of.

Yes NOS OEM caps are orange drop type with the same 22-5001
part ## made by Sprague IIRC. If you dont find them we gotta
find that cap expert for a good sub.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Thanks for walking me through the learning curve here. If I can't find em, maybe I'll start a thread about the caps.

Al

Weren't they some kind of a real precise value or tolerance. I don't remember them having a value on them, just a part number.
Also, didn't some sets have a different amount of them, like some sets had three, some had four. It was dependent on the flyback characteristics. :scratch2:

IIRC the 22-5001 was an odd value like .0185 or something.
The 4-lead value would have been times the number of them.
I think some sets had 4 & some 5 but not sure, been to long.
There were at least 3 different 4 lead caps during the Chromacolor 2
era. The very common one, the 13GC10 + and the EFL high angle
CRT sets starting from H line.
Other brands used them also. Magie had the same problem with
CRT necks getting sawed off but it never got publicity. I saw
2 of them. Had the customers bring them to a Magie ASC.
Also Sears/Warwick, Admiral & probably other I dont remember.

73 Zeno:smoke:

The 4-lead cap in the Magnavox had number 250663-XX, where XX was a different number depending on the value.

IIRC GE and RCA also had single capacitors in the sets from the 80s

Zenith made it much easier by using one cap, with several in parallel as needed.
I have a NOS Zenith 22-5001 and will check its value with my Fluke to see what it is.

The reading on both the orange drop and ceramic tube, both 22-5001, was .002 mF (or 2 nF)
The working voltage is probably 1600 volts or higher

Thanks. I did a little poking around and haven't come up with any yet. Any info to simplify my search would be cool. Thanks.

Al

Yup. GE's were famous for there cap opening. Usually just blew the HOT
& the rectifires on the vert board sometimes. You could take a
working one & pull on it & it would come apart. We changed them
all if not updated. Maggie was a big long time user of 4 lead caps
I think up to the C-1 chassis there best set IMHO. Zenith used them through the 9-160 era at least. I think more would have used them
if not for the early problems Zenith had with the American Radionics
ones, I would have steered clear to !
Well its always fun talking shop..........

73 Zeno:smoke: