philco 21" console to fix or not
 

this philco model 22d4029g console has a nice cabinet and i have the parts to restore completly. the thing has to have a zillion hours on it as only 2 tubes are original. lots of work underneath the chassis. picture tube is a replacement checks great. are these good performers when working. thanks steve

couple pictures
 

here are a couple pictures.

it is a 1956 model.

Yes, it may be a popular model but keep it as a daily-use set if you can.

All original B-W programming looks better on such a set.

I used to re-cap then sell those to friends for the mid-70s video games thier folks wouldn't let them hook up to the "good tv", none ever came back go figure....

I say fix it. It appears to be the same chassis as my philco in my profile pic.

why not if the crt and fly are good go for it

The last year for Philco's flat chassis, 1957 sets were mounted vertically like GE and RCA.

To many collectors who prefer older post-war TVs, I justify the much easier efforts on these sets;

What makes it unique now is IT WORKS, everyone notices that.

330 Chassis. High voltage cage is missing.

Will clean up and perform well.

I'm probably guilty of being a 1940s snob some of the time, but last week I put a new CRT in my 1958 Philco Miss America and I have to say the picture is stunning. The triple speakers sound pretty swell, too. It only has a 17" screen, but this is a TV that guests will enjoy sitting down to watch. The older sets are curiosities to them. They'll watch for a minute or two and chuckle something about what "big screen" meant in those days, and then start looking for more guacamole.

I think manufacturers had really figured out black and white TV design by the late 1950s. If you want a TV to watch, you can get many hours of inexpensive enjoyment from one of these consoles that is not on anyone's top 10 drool list.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Phil:

You have raised my curiosity. I do not recall any Miss America with a 17 inch screen. Can you provide a model and/or chassis number? Thanks,

Don

Doh! Sorry, I was thinking about the 17" set I'm working on today. The Miss America (F4626M) has a 21AMP4 (replaced the old 21BSP4).

Phil Nelson

i replaced the paper and electrolytic caps today. i have audio but no high voltage. it had 4 wrong tubes installed in it. replaced those still no high voltage. will check more on it next week. i have the schematic. this set has had tons of use on it. i will get her going. steve

i removed the high voltage cage to clean the chassis.

Probably all too often I have told the story of my near life long ownership of a 56 Philco 21" table model. I LOVE everything about this set. It's not the most exciting to look at, but has performed faithfully and unrestored for 58 years with what I think is the easiest chassis (TV330) to service ever made. I do wish that the c.r.t. came out with the chassis like many of that time, but it's not perfect I guess.

I am glad to see someone posting about these sets because they don't get a lot of mention, but should I think from the standpoint of being a good potential daily user which I think is important. Some of the real old stuff I wouldn't want to put a ton of time on, but find something that is still reasonable to use as parts can still be found and such then I think that it should be put to good use. So I hope that you get it going and become as impressed as I have always been with mine as far as picture quality and such. I say the longer mine plays the better it plays. Being unrestored I am sure that there is some truth to that with some component being slow to reach its working parameters.

I collect several different "old" things, and I try to use most everything that I keep, Well, except the two man crosscut saw hanging on the wall! LOL But the old TVs and radios need to be used; it's what they were made to do. If ya have kids, I think it would be good to interact with them on the use of an old set if you can get them away from their "smart" phone long enough. I have found that many young people are very intrigued by old radios and TVs

although these mid to late 1950s sets are quite playing in common now as well as still plentiful in 15 or 20 years they'll be as scarce as some of the pre Wars or even the late 40's sets wouldn't hurt to keep a couple around

well i have the high voltage back l36 on the flyback was burned open. this goes to the damper tube which i have swapped out. crt is plenty bright have some audio and a white raster. going to have to pull the chassis and take voltage measurements. would the 1n60 geraninum diode give me a slick raster if it were bad. thanks steve

Few Philco TVs had chassis-mounted CRTs for good reason. There was far less factory and service breakage and lighter to handle. The 1956 TV 440/444 had chassis mounted CRTs and were a nuisance to handle. After that, only portables came that way.

Most shops had test set ups so firing up a chassis in the shop was no problem and took up much less room.

Yes, a bad video detector can cause a raster with no sound, no picture. A simple ohm meter check will confirm a suspect.

Don

So even then they knew that they had something going on performance wise. I guess different markets serve different purposes and it holds true today. The more basic you keep something; the less likely that there is something that is going to break. BUT if there were no "big spender" market that wants to be trendy and have all the bells and whistles, then there wouldn't have been much room for companies like Allen B. Dumont Laboratories to forge ahead and actually over-engineer a product for at least short term high performance. This market is not worried about ease of repair or even replacement.

Personally, I'm glad that at least long ago these market differences were more clearly defined. As fascinated as I may be by the elaborate circuitry of a working early Dumont set, I would rather fix up something like one of these mid 50s Philcos (NOT Predicta) with relative ease and still have what is practically the same caliber of conversation piece to the average person who doesn't remember a time without color, remote control covering every function, and satellite programming

I really don't remember a Philco, that the CRT, wasn't cabinet mounted. I just used to pull the yoke and use my test CRT.
The model in question, was the first to use the one piece chassis and full power transformer and 5U4.
Never was a big fan of the split chassis jobs, even though, I have one in my collection. :boring:

ok i replaced the video detector diode with a nos zenith 103-23 all the micas in the horizontal and several off tolerence resistors. fired her up and was rewarded with this. it still needs a new on/off switch the vertical lin and height has dead spots in the controls. i think i have nos for all three. here is pictures. really nice and easy chassis to restore.

next thing polish up the cabinet and front bezel. i am very happy with this philco.

Hey, another one back from the dead. Looks good!

Another advantage of mid-late 1950s consoles, besides easy restoration & good performance, is that you CAN watch them daily without chewing your fingernails over the possibility of burning up some priceless unobtanium part.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

This is a good thread. It's neat that several people here have a Philco of this vintage and/or know a little about them. It's surely not a technical thread, but that's because the darned things don't ever stop once you have them in working order. I think they are phenomenal based on my experience with the two working 56s that I have owned. I do have a metal case table model that I will probably keep for parts and a couple of extra chassis.

If anyone needs a bail out on an unobtanium part, just drop me a line. I haven't needed a part other than a c.r.t. in about 32 years. Amazing!

[QUOTE] I really don't remember a Philco, that the CRT, wasn't cabinet mounted. I just used to pull the yoke and use my test CRT.
The model in question, was the first to use the one piece chassis and full power transformer and 5U4.
Never was a big fan of the split chassis jobs, even though, I have one in my collection. [QUOTE]

The 1956 Miss America TV 440/444 and the 7 inch 50-701/2 are the ones I recall. I may have missed one. That 440 was one of the few chassis that was not carried over to the following year.

Split chassis were over-engineered and had high manufacturing cost. The flat chassis (1955 on) was built in the new factory that closed in '75.

[QUOTE=Don Lindsly;3099270][QUOTE] I really don't remember a Philco, that the CRT, wasn't cabinet mounted. I just used to pull the yoke and use my test CRT.
The model in question, was the first to use the one piece chassis and full power transformer and 5U4.
Never was a big fan of the split chassis jobs, even though, I have one in my collection. Now I remember that big, heavy beast. IIRC, it was a 24". It was an upright chassis, like the Admirals of the day.

one more question. the focus magnet how much focus or should i say how sharp can i get the picture on this philco. the focus magnet is froze tight im going to put a little liquid wrench on it and let it soak. the set does have a good picture by the way. steve

RCA Man:

With a good picture tube, it will produce a sharp focus with scanning lines clearly visible across the entire screen. As the CRT and/or focus magnets degrade, some degradation will be noticed.

thanks again don

the crt is a ge replacement date code 6543-30 seems it was an all new tube..
steve

Is the C.R.T. a 21ZP4 or a 21YP4? For some reason they used both in or around 56. My "keeper" has the 21ZP4 and all my parts are 21YP4s. I hope someone knows why they did this. The problem that it presents is that you have two identical sets for all practical purposes, but the tubes can't be swapped directly.

The difference from what I have heard and seen is the method of focus, but again the sets are identical. Does anyone have a U.H.F. set?

The 21Y and 21Z have unique bell shapes and are mechanically interchangeable only with each other. The 21Z is magnetic focus and the 21Y is electrostatic.

If the 21Y is used to replace a 21Z, then the focus magnet ass'y needs to be removed and a focus voltage applied to the focus pin. A centering ring, similar to a color TV purity ring, is also needed.

If the 21Z is used to replace a "Y", then a focus magnet and mounting ass'y is needed.

it is a sg-21zp4b crt

couple pictures of crt