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2001 Sanyo DS27510 -Horozontal Line
Any one know where I could find a schematic and/or help me out with this TV. Usually I work on older stuff but since this is our main set, and it just keeled over, I told my dad that I'll give a whack at it before we go out and buy a new fancy flat screen. (which I'm against because I don't like the picture's)
Anyway's we've had this tv it's whole life and with 8+ hours every day for roughly the last 14 years, I'm surprised it never needed servicing years ago. Earlier this week I noticed a Horozontal line appeared at the top of the screen with the portion right above it looking compressed. We thought it was a glitch because if shut off (and left off) for 5 or more min, it would be gone. But everyonce in awhile it would slowly come back while on. This evening though it came on fine, but within 2 minutes the screen suddenly jumped into that classic horizontal line... Vertical section of circuts has apparently failed. Not sure exactly though if it'd be just a cap/filter cap or some other issues. I don't know much when it comes to these newer televisions. Hell, I could use more knowledge when it comes to the vintage one's too.lol Those of you that know these sets, please help me out. Thanks |
You have a vertical failure.
Almost surely needs a couple of capacitors and the vertical chip. Possibly just bad solder connections, but sounds like by now the chip is bad. Should be mounted on one of the larger heat sinks on the chassis. It will hav e from 5 to 12 pins or so on it. #'s such as LA7832, LA7838, or such, possibly something different, but likely available on ebay. There should be a capacitor off of that chip, rated at 35 volts or maybe 50 volts, and 100UF or so, it WILL be bad. Replace this and the chip--and see if that helps. It is possible that the fuse resistor from the SMPS or flyback has opened--when the chip failed, and if toy have a meter, you can check and see of the 25 or higher voltage supply is there for this chip when power is on. If it is NOT there--a resistor off of either the SMPS power supply, or the flyback has opened, this will be a low value resistor, 10 ohms or less. Sams has a manual, photofact # 4526 |
What usually happens with Sanyo TV's from this era:
1. Cold solder connections on the vertical output IC (the IC will be a stand up IC that's mounted on a heatsink). Resolder the IC connections before doing anything else (you might get lucky). 2. Vertical boost capacitor fails and takes out the vertical IC and possibly the B+ feed resistor and the B+ diode. This capacitor will likely be either a 100uf or 220uf and it should be replaced, even if all you had to do was solder the connections. The symptoms of this capacitor going bad are lines and foldover at the top of the screen. After awhile, the condition of the capacitor will get worse and it will burn up the IC. I don't have a schematic for this set; but, you should be able to google the part number of the IC and get a pin-out diagram. Once you have that, determine where the B+ voltages enter the IC and check those voltages (with the old IC removed). If the voltages are missing, trace the circuit back until you find the resistor and diode that supplies these voltages (usually off the flyback transformer). More than likely, the resistor and/or diode will be bad. When working on the set in this condition, do so for as little as possible to prevent a line from being burned into the CRT. Or, unplug the CRT socket or turn the G2 control on the flyback down. Sanyo CRT TV's are usually pretty good and once you fix the vertical issue, it will probably last you for several more years. |
hmmmm.... I have a Sanyo DS25390, I got it from my sister who bought it new....
She sent it to me for a buzzing sound it would make while on.... Turned out to be a common problem with a bad cap on the standby supply that would run the relay when the set is on.... Yesterday while watching the set I saw the picture fold up from the bottom for a few seconds, then for the rest of the evening it returned to full size. But you could see very tight compressed scan lines at the bottom..... I guess it's a cap since the buzz was a cap, and I found many of this type of problem on the internet... I imagine most Sanyo's are the same, and that if this cap goes bad completely it will take out several other components....? Correct...? I guess I'm better off taking this set out of service and replacing caps in the vertical...... When I got the set, it also had the white glue on the convergence magnets dried and let go, I did a full convergence on this tv, It has an outstanding picture, So I'm very interested in keeping it.... I have several back-ups.... . |
Resolder the vertical IC and replace the capacitors, especially the one I mentioned.
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Hey guy's,
Thanks for the help so far. Honestly I didn't know these tv's had a chip, that dedicated to the vert. circuits. Well, anyway's after work and some stuff I had to do, I tore the back off in the living room...:stupid: WOW! This thing is DUSTY! Im a little surprised it never smelled(like when tubes burn dust). Also shocked at how small the board is for all the functions this tv has. After some searching I found the Vertical Chip. It's a LA7841 chip with 7 pins.http://www.audiolabga.com/pdf/LA7841.pdf I found that one of the pins(#2) does have a bad soldier joint. Looks like it even broke loose, but looking at the surrounding board, it looks as if that pin's overheated some...idk. I also easily found that 35V 220uF cap too, that was close by. Honestly I think it did kill the chip, like what radiotvnut said in#2, the cap likely went bad and took out the chip, because it did have an issue at the top of the screen before it went. So basically, replace that cap and the Vert. chip/IC and see how it goes from there? I was also wondering, how do I go about discharging the crt/high voltage in this set safely? without destroying anything. Normally, I would short it out on the chassis, but this don't have a full metal chassis. Can I also disconnect all the wires that i can to pull the board out easily, without worring that i may destroy its programming(since these newer sets all have menu's instead of actual knobs that controll the settings)...like i said, I dont know that much about these newer one's:para: I havn't decided yet on the schematic. Sam's wants $22 for a copy and that sounds kind of expensive. I got a few pics down below. Thanks very much so far guy's. |
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When the parts are not well ventilated, dust heated parts often .. I hope you gonna remove the dust Zack....Yesterday I found a 2001 Toshiba and the set was very dusty and she was dying because of it. I opened it and it was about 1/4 inch of dust .. I removed all the dust and now it works fine
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That is pretty dusty.... I take the back off all my daily use sets once a year and
give them a vacuuming out..... Don't want that dust to make it easy for a short to develop in the humid summers we have here..... You got a few years worth of dust in there..... . |
Yes indeed Username1..
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Also, the HV will attract dust. I can generally tell if a set is low hours or high hours by the amount of dust inside.
Concerning the vertical issue, replace the 220uf capacitor and resolder the IC. If that does not do it, replace the IC. If it still does not work, check the B+ voltages going to the IC and investigate from there. That vertical IC should be cheap; so, might be a good idea to order 2 or 3 of them for future use or in case you blow one up. As for discharging the CRT, clip one end of a clip lead to the CRT ground strap, clip the other end of the lead to the metal portion of a good insulated screwdriver. While holding the handle of the screwdriver, gently slip the blade of the screwdriver under the HV anode cup and repeat several times. If the CRT is fully charged, you may hear a loud SNAP when it discharges. You should be able to unplug the chassis without fear of losing any memory. As far as what unplugs, you have the degaussing coil, speakers, deflection yoke, the CRT socket board will unplug from the CRT, the HV connector, and there will be several ground connections that go between the CRT ground strap and both the CRT socket and chassis. |
You're right Radiotvnut concerning if a set is low or high hours.. 2 days ago i found a Toshiba : year: 2001 and when I removed the back, the circuit and the CRT was like new..I ask to the owner if he had this set since longtime and he said to me he bought new in 2001 but never played more 2 or 4 hours a day.. he has a new flat screen now..Anyway the Toshiba is heavy weight for a 27'
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I wonder if it's a real Toshiba or one of the Orion-built sets?
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I can't say but the CRT is made by Orion yes.. so is it good or not ? I can't say . what do you think about Orion ? |
Hey guy's, just a quick update.
It's BACK!!!! Thank ya'll very much! I'll get back to ya in awhile when I get on one of the PC's. |
Orion is a cheaper brand; but, not as bad as Funai. Like other companies, Toshiba figured out that they could outsource production of their TV's cheaper than they could build them on their own.
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Well, I would like to thank you all for helping me out. The TV seems to be back up and running like normal. I'm going to run it for awhile tomorrow to make sure its good to go before I put it all back together. Anymore suggestions of things to do while it's apart?
Went over to Radio Shack this afternoon because I needed something and I found (online), that they supposedly carried the Lytic cap that I needed.(35v220uF) They actually did! and the guy knew what I was talking about!! Little expensive but no wait for shipping-So why not... Anyway's I pulled it apart at my table in the basement, and proceeded to discharge the CRT. My dad was all pins and needles when I was doing this...:lmao: The CRT didn't even have a snap to it when I discharged it.:smoke: I vaccumed it all out, including the back casing. A lot of dust after about 14 years... Pulled the board out a little way's and just looked it over. I Desolderd that cap, then put the new one in. Then I re-soldered the connections of that vert. chip, hooked it all back up, and volla:thmbsp: Got some photo's if anyone care's Here's the underside of the board http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/r...psea86880b.jpg Close up of my resolder job http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/r...psfddbb1cc.jpg The repairs made-resolder and cap http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/r...psd714e236.jpg Back of the Television on my table http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps228c9013.jpg New Capacitor http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb82aadc1.jpg and The Result!!!:D http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps01abd6e4.jpg Apparently the chip was fine... or slowley on its way out, without currently showing any issues...:scratch2: Should I worry about getting another? Everything else seems to function as should and was plesently surprised that my custom settings were still in its memory for playing my PS3. Thanks again for the help! |
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Good pictures !
Yah a lot of people here don't like the last gen crt sets, but they do represent the best and worst of the crt years..... Best as in for the size, they make a great picture, low power useage, very compact circuit designs, and for the most part pretty reliable. The worst of it is the cheap parts used made many die too soon, and of course the gov's campaign to get the ekonim'e going "replace all yer electronics regularly - It's all got lead in it!" BS kinda puts a bad taint on keeping crt sets... You know the lead is gunna leak out and make yer kids dumb.... Ran mine regularly for the last 2 days... Fri-picture collapsed, turned it off then on, and it finished the day ok.... Sat. no issues at all and it ran longer..... Now I'm thinking it's a bad solder joint..... I'm gunna run it tonight and whack it a few times, see what happens..... Otherwise I got another set to put there temp. till I work on this one. Move all that stuff, the couch, wires converters, VCR's and give that area a shot with the vacuum - scare off those dust bunnies.... Good to see you got that set working- Looks very good ! . |
You're right Username1......and mine has also a small circuit and it's running very well for a Toshiba made by Orion..this set uses a Orion tube, nice picture anyway...
Zack, you made a good job on yours ;) nice picture too. |
I have a Funai, and two Orions. One Orion is a flat tube, I don't care for it as it's out
of focus at the edges, The Funai is an Emerson, and looks pretty good. My Sanyo is all Sanyo as far as I can see.... Sanyo tube, and Sanyo parts and ID on chassis.... Of course If it was outsourced and not identified I can't tell.... I think it's a 2001 yr. I gave the Sanyo a little extra TLC when I got it, had to replace a cap, and redo the convergence due to the white glue coming off.... Replaced it with clear silicone after conv. and focus, gray adj. found the secret menu and touched up a buncha stuff. Now color, and B&W shows really look great. It's a good cheap tv that performs well... I would pick up another if a free or $10. one came along... . |
Well, i've never seen a Funai so I don't know how looks like this set. Don't have Orion... however i have an old Sanyo..... At this day my Toshiba (orion) play very well. $10 for and old tv set is not expensive and correct. ;)... It's hard to found the secret meny when you don't have the right remote control...
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If you get a set and it works well, you can often type the model number into
ebay and the sellers who specialize in remotes often have them listed along with the tv/vcr/helicopter/time machine they go with..... The secret menu is often accessed by some odd combination of front panel buttons along with pulling the plug from the wall while holding a fan above the screen - odd stuff, but it's not a button on the remote as far as I know.... In the case of my Sanyo it was written in the service manual, which I found online, It gave access to screen controls, vert size, drive controls.... stuff like that. Layout was cryptic and numeric, you had to have the manual which had the item written out, like Green Screen Adjust. and it had a cryptic ID like GR1 and you scroll through till you find it by number or ID then next to it was both the present value, and it's preset, which you could reset it to if you wanted. It saved when you exited. All these modern sets have this menu, some you can find on google by asking "your tv" and "setup menu" There are a few pages out there with just these menus on them, and how to get to them..... Just be careful, write down what you do, and do only one or two at a time.... There is no confirmation for it all, its not home owner friendly, no warnings etc. . |
oh okay .thanks username1.
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Well, I put the set back together after running it for about 5 hours without any problems. Running nice and cool too! Got it set back up where it belongs just in time for the new episode of The Simpson's:D lol
[QUOTE=Username1;3126391]Good pictures ! Yah a lot of people here don't like the last gen crt sets, but they do represent the best and worst of the crt years..... Best as in for the size, they make a great picture, low power useage, very compact circuit designs, and for the most part pretty reliable. The worst of it is the cheap parts used made many die too soon, and of course the gov's campaign to get the ekonim'e going "replace all yer electronics regularly - It's all got lead in it!" BS kinda puts a bad taint on keeping crt sets... You know the lead is gunna leak out and make yer kids dumb.... Ran mine regularly for the last 2 days... Fri-picture collapsed, turned it off then on, and it finished the day ok.... Sat. no issues at all and it ran longer..... Now I'm thinking it's a bad solder joint..... I'm gunna run it tonight and whack it a few times, see what happens..... Otherwise I got another set to put there temp. till I work on this one. Move all that stuff, the couch, wires converters, VCR's and give that area a shot with the vacuum - scare off those dust bunnies.... Good to see you got that set working- Looks very good ![/QUOTE] Thanks Squirrel. Hmm yea, I must agree with ya, but would early 2000's be considerd as last gen? I'd figure that would be the one's from the mid-late 2000's when CRT sets were being phased out. My dad got one of the later one's (20"Emerson) and I never thought it was built the best. I could probably tune it up some but he don't care and it's reliable...even with it's crooked assed picture:no: Wow, sounds like you've got lots of work to do just to move your set! Quote:
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Hey guy's, I was wondering. Since this cap went bad, how long will all the other cap's (made by the same company) most likely last? |
It's no telling about the caps.... Faults can come from a design goof, or cutting corners
on quality parts, not allowing for enough "space" between rated, and working conditions for any of the parts. Can apply to heat, or voltage ratings. Accepting bids on parts from the lowest bidder.... If you feel your picture could be sharper, there should be a focus control on the flyback transformer, it's the thing with the red wire that goes to the picture tube.... . |
The "pump up" ckt...has ALWAYS been hard on capacitors. It is one of the first problems to surface on tv sets on the modern SS area--after bad connections. The smaller modern caps get--the more failure-prone the seem to get. I would not worry too much about other ones --yet. I do NOT think Sanyo had a "chronic problem" with electrolytic caps--like its did in their sets.
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This repair is a great example of how to fix almost any
vert problem in any set from the mid 80's on. In fact I only remember a few that wouldnt be fixed by following the problems pointed out. Thats hundreds of sets...... BTW your set has an RCA CRT the best of that era. 73 Zeno:smoke: |
What was or is the "pump up" circuit....? Never knew that term....
I've seen the RCA flyback start circuits, the old doublers, and a few others, what are the characteristics of the pump up design.....? And who's set has RCA picture tube, and are they directly labeled....? How can you tell...? Did this differ between the21", 25" and 27"....? . |
The vertical pump up ckt, is a ckt that recovers what would otherwise be wasted energy from the yoke and adds it to the B+ supply for the ouptut ckt. This is claimed to lower the power needed for vertical deflection and such. Maybe it does. I recall in the old days of SS sets--some vertical ckts had HUGE sinks--probably 30 watts or such for the Vert. outputs, which ran in class A or PP-AB. . In the late '70's or so--they added a "retrace switch" transistor to the ckt, and this made it have a LOT lower dissipation and power draw. The RCA ctc-85 manual give a VERY good explanation of this Pump up" or "retrace boost" ckt. IIRC.
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The Sanyo has an RCA jug.
Tell by label style, bonded yoke, EIA # 273 and seeing thousands of them. Labels tend to be the same with different names only. Earlier Sanyos used mostly Sylvania EIA 312 Zenith EIA either 343 or 1101 ( Rauland div) Philco #260 Motorola #185 GE #188 etc. 73 Zeno:smoke: |
Ah... Ok thanks guys ! ! I do remember working on old panasonics with very good sized
heat sinks, and later sets the vertical circuits did seem to have smaller drivers, and smaller heat sinks... I thought the pump thing was a power supply I had not seen yet.... Mine had a bonded yoke.... But it de-bonded along with the conv. magnets... I did not see this set new, so I don't know if it looked really bad while my sister had it, and for that reason she didn't want it back, or if it got bounced way out of whack on the ride to my house..... 400 miles... I'm going to look into the tube on my Sanyo, I still have to pop it open and look into the vertical on it.... Which now has worked for several days with no twitching of any kind.... I guess they were getting these circuits better and better just before they quit making them... . |
Speaking of CRT's in Sanyo TV's, I was once given an LXI branded Sanyo built 20" TV from the late '80's. For the time, it was a nice set with stereo sound and A/V input jacks. The set worked; but, it used a Zenith CRT and unfortunately, the CRT was not in great shape. The emission checked OK; but, during brighter scenes, the picture would go out of focus, the greyscale would change, and there would sometimes be a big blurry band in the middle of the screen. I could run the set with the contrast and brightness turned down; which, helped. However, running it like this produced a dim picture. I eventually sold the set to someone who wanted a cheap TV; but, I think that set would have had an amazing picture, had the CRT been good. Had the CRT been good, I might have kept it.
I also have a mid '80's Sanyo built Sears TV and it's CRT is excellent. I can't remember if the CRT in that set is an RCA or Sylvania (I think it's an RCA). |
Update: After a week it seems to be doing perfectly fine. No issue's:thmbsp:
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Hmm, good to hear about the CRT. I didn't know that. I don't remember off hand now, but I don't think I saw anywhere on it, as to who made it. Just the date(6/25/01) and some misc info&safety. I thought it was just of Sanyo's own doing. Honestly for the hour's this set has on it, I'd say it's done good. Don't have a clue how long it will last, but I figure it's got around 46-49500 hour's on it. Only issue's are that when side by side(of another tv) the image is slightly darker (on stock setting's), and it's got what I call "red bleed" with certain color's on the screen. It's most noticeable on "The Simpsons" but it doesn't really show up that much. As a side note, when it comes to the brightness, I think it's close to perfect and the other tv it was compared to has brightness set higher at the factory. When viewing a wide screen program, if a black image comes up, it's exactly the same as the bars on the top and bottom, while on the (brighter) set, the bars are lighter than the black image and it just looks like it throws the look off some. im ramblin' now:boring: |
I meant to write "MITS" as in mitsubishi. Somehow--the "M" got cut off. I am SURE people here--know what I am referring to
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^Oh... if the M was there I would have probably peiced it together^
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I was wondering what its was also... To be honest, there are lots of times I don't
pick up on many people's word trimmings.... But now that you add the M - I do remember a few comments on Mitsubishi tv sets and capacitor problems.... . |
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