1970s Zenith All-in-one Stereo with record player issues
 

Hello everyone today I brought home a 1970s vintage Zenith AM/FM Stereo/Phono Table top Radio that also has Tape hookups on the back, and anyways its got a Zenith Badged BSR 3 Speed Turntable in it that for some reason the size adjustment switch (the switch that tells the tone arm which size of record is on the record player for the correct tonearm drop when using the changer) isn't working right, for some reason whenever you try to use the changer the tonearm drops at the 7" position even in spite of the size switch being set to 12" size which I've got the turntable out of the cabinet and I've looked it over and I really can't figure out why the turntable won't drop the tone arm at the right spot in reference to where the tonearm position switch is set. Anyone else on here have a similar issue with one of these old BSR Changers and if so what did you do to fix it?

Thanks for your Help.

Seriously? No one's had this issue before?
Considering how problematic these later BSR Changers were I'd be surprised if anyone on here didn't have any issues with them if they've ever had a stereo with one in it, because I know for a fact that every single stereo I've ever encountered that had one of these old late model BSR Changers in them all had issues with them of some sort whether it was the power switch being stuck in the off position, a mistracking tonearm, or a malfunctioning changer mechanism, and even a malfunctioning tonearm drop mechanism (which is what I'm experiencing right now with this old Zenith).
Anyways it would be really nice if someone would give me some ideas of where to start looking and or troubleshooting as far as fixing this changer's issues goes.

most changer issues are caused by old hardened grease, making the parts stick or not move at all. I have 50+ changers, only 2 worked right (without tear-down and cleaning) when I got them. On most changers you cant clean them effectively without some dissassembly.

He's right, 90% of the time it's grease that turns to glue on record players, or the
grease picks up dirt and gets too gummy. BSR's are pretty easy, simple mechanism.
You just gotta turn it by hand through it's automatic functions and watch it. But a good
cleaning is first step.

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there should be a part associated with the rotation of the tonearm that has 3 steps or stops on it to stop the motion of the tonearm swing at one of the 3 record sizes. this part should move when you move the size control. make sure all the parts associated with that are moving free. on many changers there is a friction clutch action on the tonearm movement, to prevent damage if something or someone obstruct the motion of the tonearm during the change cycle. don't get grease on that or the tonearm wont move.

Most BSRs used a pot metal (grey in color, later BSRs were Delrin white plastic) cam gear for tonearm movement - the pathways and the extent of travel are determined by the record size setting.

Clean the pathways in the cam gear with a good degreaser - Naptha works well, as does WD-40. After cleaning and degreasing, use GC Phonolube or a similar grease (I'd stay away from lithium grease, it reacts with the porous potmetal) and cycle the changer with some 45s to make sure it lands properly, then some LPs. The landing can be slightly adjusted with a screw at the tonearm base.

We used a GC record changer stand to repair the changers - they are pricey these days - last one sold for over a hundred on fleabay.

Cheers,

Thanks for all the tips and advice, I'll see if I can tear this thing apart and relube this thing.
one other thing I've noticed is that the record player when it gets to the end of the record it acts like its going to do the record ending cycle where it picks up the tone arm at the end of the record and sets it down on the tonearm rest and shuts off the record player, except instead of setting down the tonearm on the rest and shutting off the record player it cycles the tonearm back onto the record and plays the record again, almost like as if the record changer's support arm was up and it still had another record on the changer but it doesn't, and even with the support arm lifted up and out of the way it still does the continous cycle thing with the tonearm.

any ideas as to why it would all of the sudden start doing that?

Look under to see the linkage associated with the arm, you will see what it does
when the arm is up, and when it is down with no additional records....

.

Thanks, I think I'll see if I can take a look at that and see what's going on.
I realize that the BSR Changers (not unlike their Collaro brethren) were meant to be easy to service but I really wonder why it was that BSR made and stuck to a changer design that was as flawed as these were for as long as they did.
I mean these BSR Changers almost always have some sort of mechanical issue of some sort with them every time I run across one, and most of the mechanical issues I realize are usually due to dried grease and what not but there have been several mechanical issues I have come across with these changers like tracking issues that are not due to dried grease that makes me wonder why it was that they didn't just stick to their old designs and just redesign the casing, because I know the earlier BSR Changers from the '50s and '60s were designed very similar to the old Collaros.

Ive found that all brands of changers usually need work, they all have grease and rubber parts that need to be renewed with age. on a BSR, take off the turntable, then remove the cam gear and clean the old grease out of the grooves in the cam , that usually solves a lot of the issues. Grease and oil oxidize, dry out, and pick up dust and dirt over time. look for anything else that has gummy grease on it, clean with Q tips and rubbing alcohol, and sparingly re grease. Don't lubricate parts that were not lubed originally. check the condition of the motor mounts and idler wheel while youre at it. Later BSR changers usually don't need to be completely disassembled, just work on one portion at a time. Usually you can get them working with that approach.

Yes, I see what you mean but why is it that the power switch on these late model BSR's almost always either seize up in the off position or in the on position (as is the case with this one) I have already encountered at least 3 late model BSR Changers where the power switch has seized up and it took me having to take the mechanism apart almost completely in order to get the power switch freed up again plus the aforementioned tracking issue with the tonearm where the tonearm/needle will just stick in one groove and skip continously unless a penny or a nickel is placed on top of the tonearm which to me seems like a design flaw where whatever they used to lubricate the tonearm and keep it moving freely just turns to glue and with it being nearly impossible to remove the shaft for the tonearm out of the record player its nearly impossible to clean off the old lubricant and apply new onto the tonearm shaft and reassemble.

Those issues arnt unique to BSR, Garrards are also famous for the trip mechanism seizing up and making the record skip at the last track. The first VM changer I worked on had the same issue. Some changers are just harder to work on than others to clean out the hardened lubricants. BSRs are one of the easiest to work on, along with VM. (the regular BSR changers, not the BSR 810, which is so compex I may never attempt to fix mine...) power switches are also a common issue on Dual changers, and 70s VM changers. At least the BSR switches dont totally disintegrate like some of the VM switches.

I'm aware of the last track issue where the trip mechanism doesn't want to activate at the end of the record unless you take and pull the tonearm all the way next to the spindle which then activates the trip mechanism, and that actually has nothing to do with whether or not the trip mechanism is seized up, I have 2 VM Changers from the 1960s (Modified VM 1200 series record players for Motorola and Zenith) that both refuse to trigger the trip mechanism unless you pick up the tonearm and force it into the middle next to the spindle which then triggers the trip mechanism, anyways that is actually because the trip lever on the bottom that the tonearm is supposed to hit to trigger the trip mechanism is so badly bent that the tonearm can't touch the trip lever anymore causing the trip mechanism to be ineffective unless you use the reject switch to trigger everything. The BSR Changers I've had to work on recently are NOT easy to work on the mechanism disassembly involves having to remove 4 screws, and then 4 or 5 C-Clips and 3 springs and then finally removing the top part of the mechanism which then to get to the rest of the mechanism you have to remove more C-Clips and springs and hope that you can remember where they all go when reassembling them and also hope you don't lose any of the springs or C-Clips or Screws (all of them of which are small enough to accidentally lose on the floor which if you don't find them can then get sucked up in the vacuum and then you're basically SOL. Anyways the powerswitch getting jammed IS an issue exclusive to this particular BSR Changer series because of how the power switch is operated in an up-down fashion as opposed to being rotated like VM Changers, plus it doesn't help any that when the power switch on this BSR Changer is trying to be unjammed it feels like the switch will break off if you aren't careful because of the said quality of the fact that the BSR Changer has a "switch" instead of a knob like your VM changers do which very rarely jam up or break like the BSR Changer Power switches do. I'll post a picture of the BSR Changer I'm talking about and you'll see what I mean by the fact that this particular model series of BSRs aren't easy to work with and are very trouble proned with unique issues to these particular changers and that no other type of changer has these types of issues.

How is it that you think that this particular BSR Changer Mechanism pictured below is easy to service? I don't know what planet you came from but whenever I see a record player or changer mechanism with lots of small easily lost C-clips or lots springs that need to be removed in order to properly service the changer or record player then I consider that a harder unit to service that isn't something that a beginner could easily service.
Now a VM Changer on the other hand I think is an easily serviced record player and changer because even a beginner just getting into record players and that is very minimally skilled in mechanics can easily work on it because there's only one part that needs to be removed in order to be able to clean and lube the whole mechanism and you only need to remove 4 screws to get that part off, you don't have to worry about small C-clips or springs or anything like that getting lost or having to worry about memorizing which position the springs were in or what not like you do with this BSR Changer.

These changers expected regular use and servicing every 5 years. Zenith used BSR changers only because they could no longer get VM changers (the company's preferred brand, and they'd discontinued their belt/idler drive high end changer design)

90% of the problems occur under the platter - one C clip to remove. The idler, and most of the cam gear can be serviced [cleaned with Naptha, (although we used Trichlorotrifluorethane), regreased with Phonolube from GC] from there. The other 10% are in the tonearm and lower/underside.

Those of us that serviced them invested in the GC phono/chassis stand, NLA, but very useful. A BSR cheater is required too - they too are NLA, 'cept on eBay. Idlers and Phonolube are still available. Rubber-Renu from Rawn was the stuff we used to revitalize the rubber on the idler.
We used two actual LPs for checking tracking, loading and lift. One was Johnny Cash, Live at San Quentin - both sides run-off grooves were different, so it was a good long/short test. The other was some Simon and Garfunkel LP with a larger hole in the center, used to test the drop, with it stacked with another.

The above, and a good stock of Astatic 142's, needles and Tetrad cartridges was about all we needed - we had about 50 junk changers, from an old Morse/Electrophonic service center we bought out - for the parts...mostly new changers and dust covers.

I worked on a number of different changers, most designs had an Achillies heel or common service issue. The BSR units are easier than some, and usually rdont require complete disassembly. There are some changers that you really need to take apart completely to service properly, BSRs are a picnic to work on compared to a Dual, PE, or Webcor. Most designs have a weak point or two. Or develop issues due to aging. The most trouble free ones I've encountered are later ones from panasonic or Sears Silvertone, later units often had more plastic parts that worked without lubrication, less parts to get gummed up with age.

Interesting, I never knew that before.
Anyways I had figured out what was wrong with it anyhow, it was a stopper that had seized up which the stopper was used in tandem with the power switch to help the tonearm gauge where it was supposed to go during the changer process along with the size switch, and since that stopper was seized up (dried up lube) it could no longer properly gauge where the tonearm was supposed to drop, so I relubed it with a little 3-in-1 oil and freed it up and now it works fine.

I am quite curious as to why you guys think that lithium grease shouldn't be used to relube a record changer/record player mechanism, because that's what one of the local repair shops near me uses on his repairs and he swears by that stuff, and in fact I have an old Dual 1215 turntable that I had overhauled with him and we used the lithium grease to relube the entire record player mechanism and it works just fine, no problems at all.

lithium is probably Ok, I use a silicone grease called Molycote- it wont dry out over time like some petroleum greases, or so the claim goes. It was expensive stuff ($30 for a small tube)(good to 300 degrees F)- I got a free sample from a vendor). Some types of 3 in 1oil can get gummy over time, or so I've heard. I use zoom spout turbine oil from ace hardware for motor bearings, and it seems to work well for that. for most changer parts i use grease. There is a product called Phonolube that is made for stuff like this as well.

this is the stuff, I will probably try something cheaper if I ever need more, though.

Well I used the non-detergent 3-in-1 oil (the stuff for electric motors that's in the blue can) so I think I should be fine, I just used it to free up the size stop that's all I did I clean most of it out afterwards.

Anyways like I said its working fine now all it was was that the size stop lever that helps to make sure the tonearm drops at the right position in reference to where the size switch is set when the power switch is activated was seized up due to dried up grease so I just freed up that size stop lever with a little 3-in-1 motor oil (the stuff in the blue can) and put her back together again and sure enuogh when I put a record onto the changer and it the reject switch sure enough the tonearm fell exactly at the very beginning of the LP where it was supposed to and when I set the tonearm on the very last track of the record and let it play through the record player triggered exactly as it was supposed to and set the tonearm onto the tonearm rest and shut off the turntable like it was supposed to which it wasn't doing that before.
So it was a pretty successful repair. :yes: :thmbsp: :music: :D

Yeah, I don't think I could afford $30 a pop just for a small 4 or 5 oz. bottle of lubricant when I can just get something like Lithium grease for $6 for a 30 oz. tube and is just as effective.

Lithium grease is NOT the stuff to use - it reacts with pot metal (a magnesium/zinc alloy, what the cam gear is made out of) and causes it to break-up through cavitation (gets cavities /holes from the pot metal alloying with the lithium). The aviation industry learned this, and shared the study.

The cam gear is BSR-specific, so Lithium might be a good choice for other constructs, but for anything with a pot-metal product, keep it away.

PHONOLUBE - sold at MCM, AES and other fine distributors, and useable on all phono mechanisms. One tube is about 8 or 9 bucks, lasts years. I still have mine I bought in 1983 or 1984...

Well that's funny because that's all the local repair guy uses on all of the record players he repairs, and I'm pretty sure that most of the record players he's repaired had the cam gears you're talking about, but I'm not sure. Although most of the record players he repairs are the single play component record players from the 1970s on which more than likely don't have cam-gears made of pot-metal.
Anyways Pot-metal I think is kind of a poor choice to use for high stress parts like cam-gears or tone-arms because its such a brittle metal and breaks very easily.

I take it that by the mid 1970s when this Zenith radio was made Voice of Music was out of business?
Also why did Zenith discontinue their high-end belt-driven record changer after only being made for a couple of years? I remember seeing a Zenith/Allegro Console Stereo with 8-Track Tape Recorder in it from about 1972 at the local antique mall and the record player in it was a Zenith Belt-driven record changer.

VM made the belt/idler driven high end changer from at least 1958-1968. But only on high end models. VM was used from the beginning of VM to the 1975-1976 era last VM changer production. VM held on a bit longer, but had fallen on hard times. The Allegros didn't have the Zenith made high end changer, it had been discontinued long ago, was very expensive to build.

Pot metal was the perfect choice - low cost, high durability, and easily molded to a precise shape. Delrin (what VCR cam gears are made of) wasn't around, and steel would require extensive surface finishing. Most non-factory trained techs go with what they can get away with, most never obtaining a manufacturer manual of any sort to consult for proper maintenance. I've seen turntables come in with all sorts of home or amateurish "repairs" that did not solve the problem, and created more problems. BSR specified two lubes - phono oil (sold by GC and Rawn) and Phonolube, sold by GC. For cleaning, they specified carbon tet, but you couldn't get that in the states, so we used varsol or naptha, depending on what we had. Dual suggested lighter fluid, which is naptha, so we were in the ball park with our degreasing/cleaning.

In the 80s, we could get the BSR 4 speed changers and wood deck for 24.95 at the distributor. One jigsaw, and you could swap out the old, unsupported turntable in a stereo with a new BSR with Tetrad cartridge. They were workhorse changers, for cheap - and damn easy to troubleshoot and repair with the turntable jig.

Zenith discontinued all of their stereo equipment due to dumping by the Japanese companies - it led to the demise of a lot of US consumer electronics companies. There was no one outside factor greater than the dumping in eliminating the Allegro and home audio line for Zenith.

VM was mostly out of business by about 1974, Zenith was the last company using VM changers in any volume. Zeniths high end belt drive changer appeared for 1961 models, if I recall right. That is the first version with a cobra shaped tonearm, the first version of the microtouch came out a year later. I think 1969 might have been the last year for it, but only in the highest end models. I think it was expensive for Zenith to make. Its a pity they never put a 4-pole or synchronous motor in it though. In the high end 1960 models, Zenith used a Glaser-Steers changer in a few models, for one model year only. Zenith often used other changers other than VM in the 60's maybe only on one or two models, judging by all the different Zenith changer models in SAMS and Zenith's own service folders that show up on ebay. There's also a service folder for a single play (single play for lp, shows the 45 spindle in the platter like the changer version, so it must have changed 45s only. I'm not sure that model actually got produced, I've never seen one outside of the photo in the SAMS. It also lacks the index arm of the changer version, so it would not have been able to tell the spindle was out of 45s, and repeated the last record. I suspect they realized a single play version wouldn't sell and cancelled it before production, but after service literature had been prepared. Has anyone seen one? or maybe they did try to sell it, and no one bought them.
Around 1979, Zenith sold a higher end changer made by Garrard, at least it looked nice in photos. Zenith used BSR in most 1970s units, they also used Glenburn changers for a couple years.

That single play VM mechanism, was used mainly in the Voice Of Music school phonographs, and a few other phono makers. That was a very good turntable for that job, performed well, reliable, and durable. The Garrard changers used in the Zeniths were usually rebadged Garrard 630S (Unimech mechanism, good when new, PITA to service today). That changer tracks at 3 grams at lightest. BSR's higher end models in that era, were actually better changers.