Help! What is this? Montgomery Ward Radio Info Needed
 

This belongs to my 80 year old neighbor who would like more information on this radio he received from his grandparents. He remembers it being in their home, but has never tried using it himself.

The inside cover has a paper with directions for connecting batteries and is marked Montgomery Ward Co. There are also a set of Newcomb headphones.
The inside components appear to be present and we'd like to know if it would be safe to try with batteries and if so, what type?

We would also appreciate any information on history, its use, model #, value or any links anyone can suggest that would lend more info on this piece.

Thank you in advance for any light that can be shed on this radio.
Rachelle

It would be helpful if you could post the tube number...hopefully it is etched/stamped on the side of the glass envelope or on the base. Nearly impossible to figure out operating voltages without specific knowledge of the tube number, unless somebody happens to recognize the set.

jr

I see nothing marked on the side of tube and am a little nervous to pull it out as it doesn't give easily (not sure if I turn or lift straight up) The top of the tube is marked RCA, but that probably doesn't help much. The paper label has the numbers 12043 and on the inside another part says Rheostat pat. no. 85? or 35? Sorry I don't know much about these things, but thank you for your help.

Interesting that it shows the A battery and B battery connected to the same point. That can't be right, can it?

Hi Rachelle ,

Your radio will need a couple of things if it's ever to play again . First as you already know is batteries . While the common B battery size was 45 volts (with multiple batteries used on multi tube radios , 2 batteries in series being 90 volts , 3 being 135 volts , and so on) the A battery will differ depending on tube type , not every tube has the same filament (heater) voltage . That's why JR wanted the tube number which is likely embossed on the tube base . To remove your tube you turn it counterclockwise by maybe an inch to disengage the metal pin seen in one of your side view shots of the tube in it's socket , then lift it out . Your radio will also need both a long wire antenna , outside the house if there are no local AM radio stations where you are , and a ground connection . In the old days folks used to ground them to a copper water pipe because those were all grounded , but with today's use of PVC piping even for water supply there is no 100% certainty of any metal pipe being actually grounded and so a ground rod is the best bet . Lastly ,providing the tube is actually good , your batteries are in order , and your antenna and ground requirements are met , you'll need something to listen to your radio with in the form of a set of headphones . Your radio has no internal speaker and being a one tube design it doesn't have the power to drive a speaker so a period correct set of headphones are what will be used to turn the radio signals into sounds you can hear . This is why many of these end up as nicely polished display pieces on a shelf somewhere rather than in actual use because usually it's only us radio collectors who will go to the lengths required to get one to run .

Hi Bill ,

I think they took some liberties with the drawing and a quick look at the tube in one of the other pictures shows the two different wires going to two different pins on the tube socket (VS the drawing showing them both on the same pin) . In actual application it's not unusual to see the batteries negative sides tied together to form a common return point for both the heater and plate voltages , with a switch in the - going wires acting as the power switch .

Init4fun-

Thank you so much for the wealth of information!

I just got the tube out, it is marked RCA Radiotron UV199

Now that I know what is needed, I will see if he wants to attempt to get it going. There is a set of Newcomb headphones with it, however I'm embarrassed to ask but... where do they plug in?
Not sure if you can tell from the picture of the headphones, but the ends do not seem to me to have anywhere on the radio to go, though I'm sure they must - I'm just wondering where?

Thanks again!

The uv-199 has a 3 volt filament, So a couple of D sized flashlight batteries in series should work fine. I have never seen a rectangular 3 volt battery with clip connections like the chart appears to show. :scratch2:

Are there 2 binding posts on the bottom left of the picture of the front panel for the headphone connection?

jr

Hi Rachelle ,

I'm happy you got the tube out and yes indeed , the 199 was a very common type used in the single tube radios . The reason I mentioned a "period correct" set of headphones is that I had thought (mistakenly) that the Newcomb brand was newer than your radio , but looking at the picture again I see that those are indeed from the right era to belong to that radio . The ends of the wires will go under the little screw terminals on the left front of the radio . the black one on top and the silver one on the bottom will unscrew a ways (also counterclockwise) to reveal a hole where the pin on the wire will go , and then tighten down the terminal to hold the pin in place . The great thing about it being a one tube set is that if you do decide to try to get it to work you won't need too many batteries compared to , for instance a 6 tube battery operated set , those can get somewhat pricey to provide batteries for . In fact , a lot of folks with the multiple tube battery sets will run them off of modern day designed and built power supplies that work with regular house electricity so they can be run regularly without the $pendy batteries ....

Hi Rachelle,
In addition to all the good information given you, I'll throw in my two cents.
You most likely have a regenerative reciever. Many of those old 1920's battery sets used two 22 1/2 volt batteries to come up with 45 volts total for the "B" supply. The lower voltage can help to reduce howling and squealing in the head phones when listening. With a good antenna your type of radio should even work with about 24 volts for the "B" supply. I have been able to go as low as 16 volts, just for testing.
Ed

If there is a rheostat on the front panel (like a volume control) it is likely that the radio used a 4-1/2 volt battery for the filament and adjusted it for correct filament voltage. This would allow adjustment as the battery wore out, as well as serving as a volume control, by adjusting the filament voltage below 3 volts if the station was too loud. Retangular 4-1/2 volt batteries were readily available at the time.
Found this ad for a uv199... very expensive at the time! The magazine provides an interisting glimpse into radio in the era when the radio was new.

http://www.vacuumtubeera.net/RadioBr...03-1923-09.pdf

jr

Init4fun, Jr. & Ed-

Thanks again for all the info. you've been so very helpful!

Someone told me this was a kit...is that accurate & if so does anyone know the time frame it would've sold or about what it would have originally cost his grandparents to purchase? I know he's told me that they were farmers and money was scarce.

Not sure what he will want to do with it, but I'm excited to tell him what I've learned. If we can get it to work I will post results.

Thanks again for your knowledge & time.
Rachelle

Jr. Oh my gosh that's great...thank you!!

I didn't see your post and link before my last post. I will get to reading it....looks like it might answer my last questions!

Found a somewhat similar radio on the 'Bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-ANTIQU...-/172241564278

jr

Lightfoot,

To see what the UV199 is, go to:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsU.html

and down load the PDF for the tube.

It also shows a typical circuit.

James.

Hey Guys-

Thanks for the last few links as well as all the extremely helpful information you've ALL provided...a knowledgeable bunch here!

I started with no clue about any of this and now feel like I have a better sense of it from everything that's been provided....probably going to have dreams tonight of being chased by UV199 tubes, antennas and batteries! ;)

Thanks again!!
Rachelle

The circuits shown are only detector or amplifier circuits... the complete radio circuit is probably similar to this one tube Crosley 50.

http://www.crosleyradios.com/battery...-Schematic.pdf

jr

Hi jr , Something very weird , when I look at your post I can't see the link to the crosley , but when I quote your post to reply to you the link appears ? I wonder of this is a setting on my end or something with VK , like the way I get the weird "Align OrderedUnorderedDecreaseIncreaseInsertRemove" script at the top of the reply page ?

Anyway , Yes I'll bet the Crosley single tube will be a great schematic reference for Rachelle if she decides to try to get it to work .

And Rachelle , there will be one other adjustment besides the ones on the front of the radio that you may need to be familiar with if you try to run it . Inside the radio there will be what's called a "Grid Leak Resistor" that will usually be adjustable between around 2 to 20 Meg Ohms , give or take a few . Some are and some aren't adjustable .

Edited to add pictures . This is a typical adjustable grid leak as found in radios such as yours . See how the meter changes as the adjustment is pulled out or pushed in ? Adjusting this will be part of operating your radio if yours is adjustable , some are and some aren't and I figured if yours is , you would need to know about it .

Jr: The reason your link was not visible was that you pasted it in [url] brackets....Those brackets don't seem to serve a purpose. If you want your links to be visible and work just paste them in without the [url] brackets.

That's weird... wonder if other viewers are not seeing the schematic? Some of the features on this site appear to be somewhat disfunctional since AK changed their format. For example, the labels for the various function buttons at the top of the message box have disappeared, but I remembered tha the web image paste button is the 5th from the right on the bottom row and used it to paste the link. This was done using Safari browser on a iPad mini...wonder if that could be a problem? :scratch2:
For grins, here is a picture of a Crosley 50, linked by the same method:

http://www.crosleyradios.com/pics/50.jpg

does that show up?
Note the odd "open book" style (Crosley patent?) tuning capacitor rather than the more common style tuning capacitor with multiple rotating plates.

Also, I attached a photo taken yesterday with the i Pad camera of the dim light that is given off by a 199 (long pin version) when connected to a 3 Volt supply...is that visible?

jr

edit add: Thanks Tom... here is the raw link, pasted in without using the "image" button:
http://www.crosleyradios.com/pics/50.jpg

Yes , Thank You EM for telling us about the mistaken URL being what made his link invisible . And also Thank You JR for the pictures of the Crosley , the "open Book" capacitor is really cool , all your stuff shows up fine now . I remember seeing a late 20s early 30s Crosley cathedral that had such a setup being used for the volume control , the radio's circuits all ran "wide open" and the open book coupled or decoupled the antenna into the circuit , thereby raising or lowering the volume . I can't recall the model since it was one I repaired for a friend and not my own collection but I remember thinking it's gotta be the noisiest thing in the presence of any RFI .

This gets stranger and stranger... the Crosley schematic does not show on several computers that if tried after Tom changed the "image" link that I originally posted, nor does it show up anymore on the my post quoted by init4fun. It does, however show up on my iPad that I used to make the initial post, even though I have cleared its cache. :scratch2:

For grins, I will try the image button on the "reply to thread" box again, to see if it shows up.

http://www.crosleyradios.com/battery...-Schematic.pdf

Also the "raw link"

http://www.crosleyradios.com/battery...-Schematic.pdf

Do these show up?

jr

EDIT ADD: AHHH! I see the difference... the schematic of the Crosley is a pdf, while the pix of the Crosely is a jpg image file... slaps forehead!

EDIT ADD2: Tried it on an older MacBook that had not been turned on in months (so it would not have the image in cache anywhere)... could not see the pictures in Firefox browser but could see them with Safari browser. Apparently, Safari will interpret a linked pdf file tagged "img" correctly while firefox does not appear to.
.

These early sets have started popping up again recently. I guess I'm gonna have to start working on my Westingale soon as I can find a speaker and the tubes for it.