Sony XBR Questions
 

I have a Sony XBR widescreen CRT HDTV, and when I went to turn it on this past Saturday, it wouldn't power up. The red "timer/standby" LED blinked in succession 20 or 21 times for the two instances I tried to turn it on.

I have the official Sony service manual for my model, and see that the self-diagnostics give statuses for up to 7 blinks, but nothing more.

I found a tidbit of info on the Sony website recommending to unplug the power cord to the set for a little while and then plug it back in. I tried that and the set has worked ever since, but I am wondering what the problem could have been, and/or if this is a symptom that is indicative of something that needs to be addressed/fixed.


Also, I am considering purchasing a set of boards for this set to have as spares. Does anyone have any good sources for new/refurbished Sony boards to recommend?


Thank you!

TV's today are basically Computers, Computers sometime lock up for reasons unknown and have to be reset, I suspect that's all that happened to yours.

I run my Panasonic off an uninterruptible power supply to filter out the surges and brown outs in the AC Supply, I don't know if that would help but it can't hurt.

I've had such a set for ~5 months. In the first month or so it did the same thing yours did then was back to normal after being unplugged a few min. It has not relapsed yet :thmbsp: so I'd say it was probably a microprocessor glitch that needed a reset...Remember that the CPUs and code in most consumer gear are not designed continuously forever without crashing and needing a reboot.

I've had mine for almost 9 years (5 years on a UPS) and never had an issue. I'm content if it was just a one-off peculiarity.

Anything beyond 5 blinks on a Sony is power related - but with NO MODEL NUMBER posted, you'll get nuthin' from me.

http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...65&postcount=1

Sony made over 370 XBR models (just the index in the ESI software, there may be more)

You gotta give us some meat. Some of us have beaucoup experience with Sonys and could offer help....

Sure thing -- I apologize for leaving that out.

It is a KD-34XBR970.

I would love to get as much information as I can about it.

Thanks!

Hopefully it was micro lock-up........

BUT these sets had one fatal weak point. If yours is one it
uses 2 identical IC's. One in the STBY power supply & another
in the RUN power supply. They fail left & right.
Symptoms are dead set and or hard starting getting worse with time.
I had the 30" model & the 4th set went bad in 5 yrs. There was never a cure from Sony. The spare boards were all used up in < a year IIRC.
Fix is to replace BOTH IC's & install IC sockets so you can swap
them fast next time. One last thing is to watch out for bootleg IC's.
Ask around for advice before ordering any.

Good luck with the set. IMHO it had the best pix on any set ever.
I sure miss mine.....

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

This went out on my KV25XBR back when there were TV repair shops. Not seen much use in the last 10 years, but so far so good. Have a parts set...

Chip

EDIT: OOPs! Wrong series of chassis - huge difference in what my train of thought was. Your set uses the MCZ3001DB....I've always found it best to swap the D board, or go for the chip swap, but socket them and get spares.....


Genuine MX0841's ain't cheap no more:

https://www.encompassparts.com/item/...or_Mx0841-ab-f

Nor are the MCZ3001DB chips:

https://www.encompassparts.com/item/...1/Ic_Mcz3001db

I depleted my supply of them long ago - I still have two 2SC4834s for the smaller screen stuff.....

Those two chips are why I've junked more Sonys in the last 4 years. You can't go cheap with anything but the genuine Sony parts - the Chinese have mastered the fakes, and they don't hold up.

The ESI disc has a service bulletin for finding true MX0841's using capacitance of all things - the C-E junction has to have a certain picofarad value. Of 7 I had, only 3 checked out OK - the rest were obvious fakes already, but it validated the capacitance check as a way to rule out the fakes. I never got a fake from Tritronics (now Encompass, aka a Wall-Street-Run parts place....)

Thanks for the information. I will stock up on some ICs. Briefly, what is the function of the MCZ3001DB?

Also, would you be able to share any relevant service bulletins? (Or point me to a resource to purchase, if it's proprietary/copyrighted).

Thank you!

The IC's are part of power supply supplies. As mentioned earlier, be careful! No buying from our favorite auction site. The fake ones can fail rapidly or, in some cases, cause plenty of smoke, noise and sparks. I junked my super fine pitch 34' because of the chips. It was an incredible set when it worked!
And theft proof!

I ordered some from Encompass Parts -- hoping they are genuine.

Out of curiosity, what is the manufacturer of the genuine chips? The photo on the Encompass website shows "Shendengen" on the chip -- is that legitimate?

...

Encompass (the old Tritronics) sources their stuff from Sony. They are ISO Supply-Chain certified and anti-counterfeit/gray market certified as well. Just expensive, unlike the old TriTronics. We could call and get the same sales lady each time, but not so now. Tritronics, MAT, MCM (pre-Premier/Farnell), ASTI, and Fox were all the independent dealer needed back in the late 80s/90s/00s.....enter Orion and Funai and splat! No support or accessibility.

And yes, Shendengen made the originals.

the last i got from encompass was junk and went up in a fit of sparks. and encompass would not warranty them i no longer buy ANYTHING from encompass.

Is there another supplier you'd recommend?

248 dollars of parts (mostly 2SC4834s, MX0841s, and one lamp ballast board for aDLP set) from Encompass so far (since 2012/3), and all are genuine, but even genuine parts will fail if the original problem isn't fixed - whatever caused the original part to fail will take out any replacement.

What genuine Sony replacement source do you suggest, or use? Hard to find any Sony parts in North America anymore, much less genuine without going with Encompass - expensive they are, but original and genuine.

I'm following-up on this issue that I originally posted in April (Sony KD-34XBR970, having trouble starting up).

The issue first occurred in April, then again in early August, and yesterday (late September), and each time I was able to resolve things by briefly unplugging AC power to the set.

I have read everything you guys have posted about the MCZ3001DB chips being the likely culprit, and I've also taken note of the fact that there are counterfeits out there to beware of. Way back in April I preemptively purchased some chips from Encompass Parts, as well as proper sockets for them. So, I'm prepared to replace them when the time comes.

However, part of me has a nagging feeling of wanting to be certain this is the correct thing to do.

Are there any measurements or tests I could do (without specialized/proprietary equipment) to verify if the chips are good/bad? Is there a typical separate root-cause for these chips to fail, or is the problem the chips themselves?

Also, since I'm able to get by -- for now -- by power-cycling the set, I'm hesitant to risk making things worse by messing with it. What general advice do you guys have for making such a repair? I'm relatively proficient with soldering/desoldering, but I have never worked on a CRT TV. Do I need to discharge the CRT before proceeding to work on the D board? I'm sure the answer is 'yes,' but I could sure use some guidance on that.

From the service manual for this particular set, it seems that some of the boards can flip or hinge for service access. Is that the case for the D board, or is it best to completely remove the board from the set and do the chip replacements on the bench?

I know I've asked several questions, and I sincerely appreciate your patience and bearing with me.

There are 2 power supplies. One is always on & supplies
the micro & on/off relay ( if it has one.). Second one supplies
B+ for horz/HV. Its on/off is via a relay or other method.
You will need a schematic for at least the power supplies
to check them & see if one isnt working.

Use care changing the IC's the board is double sided & you will
probably lift some top etch. If you have very small dikes
you can try nipping off the IC pins & saving the etch. Otherwise
you will need jumpers.

We were a authorized Sony dealer / warranty station at that time.
Never seen a bulletin on the problem & Sony TA changed the subject !
It was common, I had the 30" & went through 3 sets in abt 5 yrs.
Shame of it is the 30 & 34" widescreens were the best CRT sets
ever made pix wise.

good luck Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Looks like I'm in the bad MCZ3001DB boat now too...My KD-34XS955 is now clicking twice (used to only be once) on power up then giving the 7 blink error code. It started a really dumb way: it was on but the computer it was monitoring was asleep so I turned it off thinking it was on then turned it on again which is when it failed...:(

Can anyone recommend a legit supplier of good chips? (I notice F-K recommends Encompass and rcaman says their parts were bad.)

Also is there any other preventative maintenance (aside from socketing the chips) that could help prevent this problem from occurring in the future?

I purchased a few sets of chips from Encompass Parts, per Findm-Keepm's guidance. They seemed legit, per the attributes that folks have said to watch for. I have been limping along so far, and have not tried installing them.

Are you able to get your set to start after pulling the power cord for a short time?

So far I have tried 2 hours unplugged and it still completely refuses to light the screen or complete power up. I plan to try it again tomorrow and see if it will stay on.

This is my main TV for HD content (which is most of what I watch) and main monitor for my wannabe HTPC so it needs to be able to power up on cue...Even if it comes on as is again it can't be going into error mode where I have to wait hours to days...Unless I just leave it on 24-7 (which I don't want to do since I don't want to use up the CRT prematurely). It probably gets 1-10 hours of use a day and power cycled as much as 10 times.

OK. Then it seems like you'll need to replace the chips. What's never been clear to me is what the exact failure mode is; whether some other problem causes the chips to fail, or if they just go bad on their own. So, there's no guarantee that new chips will solve it.

I've bought other things from Encompass Parts with success as well, so I wouldn't discourage you from buying from them.

I guess Encompass it is. After ~20 hours off it still does not power up. I even tried running it off the variac, and the only thing it did differently is continuously try and fail to power it's self on when fed around 70VAC...Above that it failed as it was yesterday and below that it is stone dead.
https://encompass.com/item/5932375/S...1/Ic_Mcz3001db
Two pairs of those chips at $25 a chip is a stupid steep investment for a BPC set, but I like it enough to want to keep it going long-term (meaning I should grab a spare set of OEM chips to have on hand while I can).


I have half a mind to also buy a pair of these cheaper non-OEM chips to test out. https://encompass.com/item/7894629/J...i_s/MCZ3001DB/

I wish there was a detailed datasheet explaining the function and design of the chip and outboard circuit better (all I can find is the pinout and block diagram). Part of me wonders if I could put two of those chips in parallel with each other to reduce strain.
Also, it seems to merely be a feedback controlled combined osc./gate driver for a switch mode power supply there are a lot of such ICs on the market so I wonder if a more rugged equivalent exists that could be built in with no or minor circuit modifications...Hard to evaluate with limited info on the original.

Our shop at the time was a REAL Sony franchise & warranty station.
Although I am sure Sony looked into it there was never a "fix" or explanation
of what was killing them. They drive FET's in a switch mode power
supply ( SMPS ). Either the FET or the IC needs a start circuit to turn on/off
& my best guess is thats what fails. MOST fails were the run supply
( press on/off 20 times & it starts). A few were the standby ( STBY) or
"always" supply ( dead set). The only thing I have never seen tried was
adding a heat sink to the IC's.
These sets were the biggest example of the new "just junk it" mentality by
builders that started in the 90's & peaked with flat screens. You buy the
best CRT TV ever built IMHO & if you get 4 yrs if you are lucky. Damn shame
as they absolutely blew away all the new displays at the time & most
made now.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Heat sinks are a good idea worth trying (IIRC I have some DIP heatsinks on hand).

Bite your tongue -- I don't think these sets deserve the BPC moniker. ;-)

They're a few levels above the garden-variety BPC.

Very true. These were the last of the "all out" TV's built &
with quality. They do deserve respect.
BTW Samsung & others used the wide tubes, probably the same one.
Had a 3 yr old Samsung 30" come in with a bad FBT. Guess what ??
Part NLA. It was everyone doing this shit not just Sony.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

You have a point. They have the best picture I've ever seen on any CRT resolution wise, and are very good on most other fronts (round screen colors, especially my 1954 models, do seem to have slightly better color).

There is just something about spending 2X what the set cost me used for 4 little DIP chips (that probably cost well under $1 a pop to make) that does not feel right to me...Especially when the replacements are about as failure prone as the originals. If I were paying that price for a pair of chips designed to last longer than the CRT I'd feel better.

I ended up buying 3 genuine and 2 of the cheaper compatible part from Encompass. I'm going to install sockets, try the genuine and the cheap ones and test the originals (if one is good and de-soldering don't kill it may as well have another spare).

Sony XBR Questions
 

Personally, I would not be too worried about the dollars-and-cents of it. There's more to it than just the "book value" of the set; that is, what it's worth to YOU & how much you like/want it. Keep in mind that the average person would not consider all the $$ that we spend on antique & vintage TVs to be worthwhile. We all have different things that we value differently, and that's fine.

For what it's worth, I've stocked up on a few sets of genuine chips myself.

It's obviously your choice to make, but I would only be comfortable using OEM chips. I'm not knowledgeable enough of the circuit in the set to know the risks of causing cascading failures, but I wouldn't want to take the chance.

Good news and strange news:

On Friday the box from Encompass arrived. I ordered 3 genuine Sony chips and 2 of the cheap equivalents. The box contained 7(!) genuine sony chips, 1 knockoff, and a plastic button for god knows what in a bag labeled with the correct chip part number. :headscrat :thmbsp: Strange, not exactly what I ordered but you won't hear me complain over getting $100 extra worth of quality parts for free.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1792/...fe1361e3_n.jpgDSCN9659 by Tom Carlson, on Flickr
The one knockoff chip I received appears to be a blatant fake according to this video so I don't plan to use it (I have 6 genuine spares to fall back on after all). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euDQVrgde4Y That video also shows an interesting way to test these chips...If I still had my spare 30" High-Scan (gave it to a friend when I got the Super-fine-pitch) I'd be tempted to make that into a chip test rig.

This site gives a good walkthrough of the procedure to change the chips with some good tips. http://k0lee.com/2011/05/fixing-a-so...-7-blink-code/ A couple more tips not in link I think are worthwhile: You can do some diagnostic work to tell which chip*, and adding a DIP heatsink to give the replacement(s) a chance to run cooler.

*Looking at the schematic IC6501 provides a number of power supply rail voltages (well the transformer whose driver FETs the IC drives provides the voltages but you get the idea) and IC8002 drives (the FETs that drive) the flyback/HV system. My set had some life: relays clicked ~3 times on power up and the blinking front LEDs (power and Memory Stick port), so those supply rails probably worked, but there was no HV start-up crackle so IC8002 was probably dead. If you have an HV probe that can measure at least 35KV (my set clocks in at ~32KV) you can confirm no HV by measuring the HV as I did.

I replaced IC8002 with a socket that I then filled with a new IC with a heat sink attached. That restored operation, and seems to have improved brightness and edge convergence some.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/940/4...fe1320b6_n.jpg https://farm1.staticflickr.com/934/4...752c7699_n.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1777/...1bf87178_n.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1839/...5c8036a2_n.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1813/...8cc15ae0_n.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1832/...455e4046_n.jpg https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1772/...d972a4e9_n.jpg

For now, I'm only replacing IC8002. I don't want to waste a good part by removing the other MCZ from the board, and I want to see how long it lasts.
Also I had been leaving well enough alone till the chip failure to the point that I never tried to reduce the noticeable overscan...Now that I've had to mess with it I'm going to have to fix that too.

Some interesting things I've noted looking at this set: It has a September 2004 build date, and the soldering on the board suggested the chips were original to the board. The dust on the board looked to match the rest of the set so it could be the original sweep board. If that is the case this set lasted 14 years on its original chips (not bad at all from what I've heard). The CRT ID sticker says made in the USA so it would seem Sony had a Trinitron plant here in the USA. The replacement chip had a lower date(?) code than the original (~....200 vs ~....600), which makes me wonder if the replacement parts are older than my set (both were MCZ3001DB). The Memory Stick reader connects to the chassis with a USB cable...That makes me wonder if I could plug a thumb drive in to play video, or connect an SD card reader to the chassis.:scratch2:

Next time I replace a horizontal oscillator I hope the part number is 6SN7 and not MCZ3001DB!:D

Still going strong 10 days later.

user181 filled my last open PM box slot to ask about this so this is my only easy means of reply...

I picked up my 970 about 7 years ago and it ran fine for 3 years then the 7 blinks started. Not knowing about the chip and only able to find some more generic tips, I replaced the entire AZ board. STDBY supply. I got the last board in the world and I got lucky. It is still going strong and I have a board to change out in the future. I did check the bdent website from the video and they still list them at $7.95 each and they have the proper markings as original. May try a few. EM...could you do testing via surface mail?

OT on the 970. Does anyone know which service adjustment would get me to curing a right edge bow towards center? I have the manual but not sure which one does the trick.

Oops! I should have checked this thread first. Somehow I missed a notification that it was updated before.

Glad to hear the good news! And the bonus deal you got, to boot! It's always nice to have extra spares.

When you did the board work to replace the chip, did you completely remove the board from the set and take it to the bench, or work on it in-situ?

Also, what type of desoldering tool did you use?

I'm asking all this for future reference.

I have one of these sets. Sometimes a reset will clear the startup problem. It has worked for me.

Turn on the TV. While holding down the RESET button on the remote factory settings control, press the POWER button on the TV. (The TV will turn itself off, then
back on again.) Release the RESET button.

If your set has the same chassis I could probably test a board (if I understand your question). I need to figure out the best way to unplug the wires from the FBT to the neck board though. If you know the right way to remove them I'd be interested in knowing.

To answer other questions as a collector of heavy bulky tube TV consoles, and someone who keeps much of his collection on the second floor, and the rest as well as the workbench in the basement I've learned to bring the tools to the set when it is not as easy to do it the other way around. If I was persistent enough to remove the above-mentioned leads to the neck board I could have done it downstairs, but they were not coming off easy and I decided against forcing things.

I used a vacuum de-solder tool (IIRC it is called the Solda-pult)...The largest size I've seen sold (~12" long)...Normally that tool gets used on tube electronics with larger solder blobs. It was not ideal (I wish I had a smaller one), but repeated heating and vacuum cycles (and a touch of fresh lead solder) did the trick. I did have a 25W iron which is more appropriate for PCB work than the 75W-150W cattle prod irons I normally use on the older stuff.

This for me was an exercise in soldering finesse.

FBT wires on late Sonys often need a special tool. They shipped without wires.
Dont remember if they could be removed any other way.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

OK. I have a desoldering iron with integral vacuum bulb. Hope that will be appropriate.

When you were working on the board, was it pretty straight-forward to move it up into the service position? I know this is described in the service manual, but it's always nice to have a real-world description of it too.

You usually don't even need to plug in a 150W iron, as the terminals will quiver in fear & heat up on their own if you come near them with an iron that size. ;-)



I understand. The good thing about it is that at least these are through-hole ICs, rather than surface mount.

Basically, there are two clips near the front (CRT side) of the 'chassis' that let all the boards slide back. I needed to unplug one cable from a small board tucked in between the flyback board and the side edge bacuse it did not have enough slack...One or two of the wires with slack may tend to tangle/hang up part way through sliding back, but will come loose with help.

98% of the equipment I work on is old 1930's-early70's tube electronics with pea sized solder joints and soldered chassis grounds. That cattle prod iron makes those dinosaurs faster to service since I don't have to wait the 10 sec - 5 min a weaker iron takes to heat up a massive solder joint...I like all my soldering on tube gear to be instant melt for speedy repair. I usually do keep a lower watt iron warm for tight spaces and delicate work on my tube stuff, but prefer the big one where usable. I'm a 'bring a gun to a knife fight' type of person. :D

Always loved the sony xbr sets. I saw a 30" in a pawn shop a while ago and they wanted $150. I passed on it but a short time later decided I had to have it, so I went back but it had sold. I kept looking and finally located a 34" xbr series 910 with its matching stand (craigs list) for $120 and picked it up. Shortly after that, I grabbed a 30" xbr 910 from a goodwill for $34.95 (which was the same price they had on all of their crt sets of which several were junk). I always wanted a Super fine pitch XBR when they were new, but prices were in the neighborhood of $2000-$3000. Anyway, the 34" began the flashing thing and wouldn't turn on. On checking the web, I ordered the ic that was suggested. Instead of disassembling the tv to get to the chip, I decided the easiest way was to use a dremel tool and carefully cut the plastic away below the chip. I then had easy access to get at the chip. While waiting for the replacement to arrive, I decided to resolder the pins securing the original chip to the board before pulling the original.....and......that fixed it! So I still have the replacement chip for future use but havent been able to use it because both sets are still going strong. This series does not have the atsc tuner but it does have the hdtv super fine pitch tube. I believe this is why the original owners probably got rid of them. Of course I went looking for a stand alone atsc tuner and found a samsung, so now I can watch broadcast hdtv, BUT I mainly use these tvs for my analogue stuff. There are several picture controls (such as clarity), which most tvs dont have .These xbrs can do wonders with laserdiscs, svhs, beta and regular vhs. With vhs going 5 for $1, it pays to have a great crt color tube so you can still enjoy the tape formats. If I would have had access to this tv when dvd first became available, I dont think I ever would have invested in dvd's because, these sets make laserdisc's look downright amazing.