Did anyone ride urban electric public transportation?
 

Since urban public electric transportation is scarce in some parts of the world, I ask you: did you ever ride with the:
1) Tram (streetcar) (trolley) (trolleycar);
2) Light rail;
3) Underground (subway);
4) Trolleybus (trolleycoach) (trackless trolley)
and if so, how was you experience with it?

Back when I was a kid in the Chicago suburbs I can remember taking the EL-line the final part of the way to a Cubs ballgame...The experience was comparable to the diesel Metra lines that dad commuted to work on (and once in a while took me with). I know I've been on the raised, aboveground and underground EL-lines in Chicago possibly more than once...IIRC there is some underground footpath between a couple of different stations on the EL-line (ISTR walking it and my folks telling me we were below the lake or river).

I've seen the overhead wires for trollies in Tampa Fl, and in The Wright Bro's hometown (can't remember the name).

You're very prolific with the questions lately :)

Here in Edmonton Canada we have 2 and 3, both are much better than taking the bus, but I don't live near any stops presently, so I take the car. We used to have 4, and it was a mess of wires all over the streets.. it was decommissioned about ten years ago. It was more or less just like the regular diesel bus, except the routes were not flexible, the wires were messy and ugly, and from time to time, the boom would get disconnected, so the driver would have to get out, and move it back into place with a big stick. I don't think too many people were sad to see it go.

I'm too young for 1 here, but I took a tram in San Francisco not so long ago.. I think they keep it going purely for nostalgia. Kind of cool how it grunts into motion as the electric motor is turned on.

Efficient public transportation doesn't mesh too well with the low population density of post-war suburban planning... the cost of building a rail line is very high when you consider the low number of people per stop who can access it.

Last year when I was in New York, I took the subway and commuter trains almost everywhere I went.. I guess it's better than being stuck in traffic, but I can't say I was a big fan of being so close to strangers in such a small space

I do like the wires :D

Since urban public electric transportation is scarce in some parts of the world, I ask you: did you ever ride with the:
1) Tram (streetcar) (trolley) (trolleycar);
Yes, as a boy in Chicago. The Lake Street streetcar line actually ran underneath the "el" (elevated "subway") tracks.
2) Light rail;
I take this to be different from subway and el trains
We didn't have these in Chicago, but I rode them in other cities when I was an adult
3) Underground (subway);
Yes, New York, Chicago, and some other places
4) Trolleybus (trolleycoach) (trackless trolley)
Yes. took one as part of my daily commute to high school and later as part of my daily commute to college.

The Illinois Railway museum has a small working system to run antique trolley buses. They had good acceleration, drawing up to peak 400 amps (usually less) at 600 volts. I can recall the sound of the accelerator pedal hitting the floor, as the drivers would accelerate at maximum rate.

Bob Newhart, a comedian born in the Chicago suburb of Oak Park, had a routine about a new bus driver being trained to alternately accelerate and brake, to spin a passenger to the back of the bus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5TTA4f7Q3E


and if so, how was you experience with it?

I always use the subway when visiting New York and Washington DC. Driving there is crazy unless you are forced to go somewhere away from the lines. On the other hand, once I graduated and got a good job, I also got a car. In some points in my career, I carpooled or took public transport on one leg and then had someone pick me up at the station.

In the 50s and 60s public transportation was heated but not air conditioned, and riding the subway with the windows open was extremely noisy.

Did you ride the trolleybuses in Chicago?

Yes, in Chicago.

4, many years ago in Dayton Ohio. Basically electric buses with overhead gantries for power. Zzzt. Quiet, no smelly diesel. (Buses around central Ohio mostly run on CNG now, so no stink at all.)
Light rail, but not in the US.
Subways, in various cities and countries. Pre-map-apps, so easy to ride to where you want as long as you know what it's next to...

Cable car, subway and electric bus in San Francisco. Underground in London and Toronto. Subway in New York and Chicago.

I rode diesel-powered buses in Omaha. Too slow and didn't reach the destinations I needed. In most cases I needed to walk miles from the furthest point to my destination. In the summer red hot: in the winter the reciprocal.

@ old_tv_nut : they got rid of them in 1972. A way to modernization. Just a year later they regreted it, because of oil crisis - oops, problems with the fuel.

Choices, 1,2&4. There wasn't a car in my family.
#1, till 1958, when they were discontinued.
#2, Interurban, sometime in the early 50's.
#4 Trackless Trolley, late 50's to mid 60's.
The population is too small to support other forms of mass transportation.
In Milwaukee, with a population of around 600K, there's no real demand for transportation on off-hours, except for special occasions.

1. Streetcars? Yes, we have a streetcar line down Woodward Avenue here in Detroit. It's relatively new having opened in May of 2017. Detroit used to have a massive streetcar network in the 40s, but GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Packard lobbied hard to have that killed; the last remaining line down Woodward ended streetcar service in 1956, and the cars were sent down to Mexico City where they were used until the 1980s. The overhead wires were kept into the 1960s and 1970s and used for trolleybuses that were universally loathed.

2. Light rail? Yes. I've ridden on the Metra lines in and out of Chicago. The Detroit area is supposed to get the MiTrain between Detroit and Ann Arbor starting in 2022, and the WALLY train between Howell and Ann Arbor sometime after that. These would be Metra style trains.

3. Subways? Yes, in Chicago, NYC, and Philadelphia. Detroit does not have a subway as such, but does have the Detroit people mover which is an elevated subway loop not unlike a smaller, useless version of the Chicago "L".

4, Trolleybuses? No. They had long been extinct in Detroit by the time I was born.

Detroit is kind of unusual for a city of its size (or rather former size) in that it has no real mass transit aside from the Woodward streetcar, which is of debatable use, the People Mover, which is entirely useless, and the bus system which is just as bad. Everybody drives in South-East Michigan, which is unsurprising given that at one point in time, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, and Packard had upwards of 80% to 95% of the GLOBAL market share in cars and trucks between them, and they actively colluded to keep mass transit out of Detroit, and to kill whatever already existed. The city has been, and likely always will be, primarily a car town. It's just too ingrained in our culture.

Incidentally, our traffic flows considerably better than most cities in the US. I've driven in bad traffic around the country, and for an area of its population, Detroit easily has the best roadways in terms of traffic control I've ever seen. Road surface quality is horrible, but that's another issue altogether.
Historically, we've consistently lead the way in traffic control innovations, and improvements to roadways in general.

William Potts built the first modern traffic light in 1920, and it was installed at the corner of Woodward and Michigan in October of 1920.
The Michigan Left was developed in the 1960s so as to reduce the traffic deaths along Telegraph Road. It's been a complete success, and EVERY state should adopt it IMHO.
The first urban freeway, the Davision, was built in 1941 and 1942.
The first complete mile of paved road in the world, Woodward between 6 mile and 7 mile.
Lines on the road marking individual lanes, developed by Edward Hines circa 1911 and first used in Trenton, Michigan.

We also consistently lead the way in automotive innovation. Henry and Edsel Ford, the Dodge Brothers, William Durant, Alfred Sloan, Charles Kettering, David Buick, Josiah Dort, Henry Leland, Walter Chrysler, Harry Bassett, and Ransom Olds, among others, all lived and/or worked in Michigan in the auto industry. Hell, prior to the popularization and refinement of the car, most of the country's horse drawn vehicles were built in Flint, eventual home of GM's Chevrolet and Buick divisions. Given that South-East Michigan was the home for the world's auto industry, it isn't surprising that mass transit never really took root here.

Philadelphia started shutting down the trolley system in the mid-80's in to the mid-90's. More than a few of the PCC cars went to San Francisco for their new Market St. line all refurbished and painted in the original city livery. Fun to ride.

And Philadelphia restored one line...#15 Girard...starting in early 2000 or so with 18 refurbished PCC cars. It finally opened in 2005. Nice article here;

http://www.phillytrolley.org/route15/girardavenue2.html

I took the market street line last September, when I was in the area for work. I think it works well, it's real living history.

Philly was in crisis or why did it closed so many streetcars lines?
I avoid the term "trolley" because in Romanian "troleu" ("trolley") refers to troleibuze (trolleybuses), not tramvaie (streetcars). In the '70's (or early '80's) the tranzition to pantographization was complete and anyway the streetcars of Romania had this kind of trolley: http://www.oradeainimagini.ro/din-tr...a-1024x670.jpg

I don't believe Chicago's Metra trains qualify as light rail. They are commuter trains, pulled by a locomotive rather than self-propelled.

It's too expensive to drive everywhere in Vancouver these days so it's more than worth the time to find a place to park and use the rather extensive trolley bus service that popped up after the trolley lines were dug out in the 50's.
Of course you only want to sit on a bus for so long so for the extra long trips (say from downtown to the Metrotown mall in Burnaby) you can get off the bus and take the SkyTrain up to Metrotown in about 15 minutes.
Not sure what they qualify SkyTrain for now. It used to be "Intermediate Capacity" and then it became "Advanced Light Rail Transit" and now it's "Advanced Rapid Transit"

Anytime I have to go to Washington, DC (about 90 minutes from me) I park my car at a metro station prior to the city limits and ride the rest of the way. I promised myself years ago that I would never again attempt to drive in that city! Parts of the system are above ground. Overall I've found it to be clean & efficient.

I've ridden on the Baltimore system which I think is considered light rail. This was probably 20 years ago so I don't recall much except it wasn't a bad experience.

In the rural area where I live there really has never been much in the way of public transportation (beyond, I guess, the old Pennsylvania Railroad). There are limited runs of small buses operated by the county, mostly for the disabled & elderly.

"Chicago Metra" are classical trains. The ones from the elevated urban routes are using subway cars.

I rode the tubes in Boston a few times as a kid. Took a train
to get there known as a Budd Liner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car
You can keep the subways, filthy & stink if piss.

At the turn of the century even small towns often had trolleys.
I grew up in a small yankee town without much shopping & it was a
"dry" town. Next town over was a mill town with a big down town.
A trolley ran between them. Whole families would go on Saterdays.
The wife & kids went shopping & the men poured into the bars.
Some of the bars were favorite haunts for Babe Ruth. My
grandfather said " he had a thirst that could cast a shadow".
Babe had a lakeside place in nearby Stow.

Only other odd transportation I had was the Cog RR.
http://www.nhptv.org/cog/
They were still running steam then.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

I rode the trolley in Memphis a few times...saw one of them catch fire and burn up too!

Must have been made by Fiat. When I was a teen there WERE two in town.
Watched both of the go up in flames ! They were just driving down the
road & suddenly smoke then flames........

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

When I was a kid they Had trolley-bus's in Nottingham, replaced by diesel in 1966. In 2003 they opened a tramway/streetcar system, they had to introduce a workplace parking tax to pay for it. The trams are getting a bit worn out now & breakdown at least once a week, sometimes more often, been on it twice. Been on the London underground a few times, very hot in summer though..

I've heard if you want a real trolley experience you can go to Seattle and ride the
South
Lake
Union
Trolley
around the downtown core.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: that arcoymn.:D

zeno, what cities where?

What do we have here? :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5qqIueHCEI

The Romainian trolley reminds me a lot of the old "PCC" type streetcar in the US, and I believe some post war European trollies were based on the design (The Chezch Tatra, in particular).

The PCC was a big breakthrough when it came out - smooth, fast, and highly effective brakes. There's still a few cities in the US that use them.

Subways are common in older US cities, and the northeastern US has a lot of electric commuter trains on the 750V DC third rail system, and also on the 11kv 25hz ac overhead system, and 13.8kv 60hz ac, and 25kv 60hz ac. The New Haven line of Metro-North leaves NYC under the DC third rail system, and changes without stopping to AC at Pelham NY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh-MG7NFpQA

NJ Transit changes voltage / frequency at SWIFT (which is a dumb name for a 15mph junction), and also at Red Bank. But all their trains are overhead power on the AC system. Stupidly, their older trains can't change voltages in operation, because they didn't want to install the changeover equipment. But they can change voltages at the shop, by literally flipping a switch under the car.

Interestingly, because Penn Station in NYC is 11kv 25Hz, Metro-North can't go there, even though the tracks connect to the New Haven line at New Rochelle, because their trains won't run on 25hz. Amtrak's will, so they use the Hell Gate line to access Penn and go south of NYC from there.

SEPTA has a lot of trains (most of the fleet) that can change voltage/frequency, but the entire system is 11kv 25hz with no intention of ever changing.

Amazingly, nobody in the US sees any of this as being stupid!

It remainds you because they are Czech made P.C.C. type streetcars (in Europe trolleys are trolleybuses, not streetcars). Years ago I noticed that the boogie of a P.C.C. streetcars resemble with the ones of "Tatra" streetcars made Č.K.D. ... later I found out why. The P.C.C. where copied by Czech, Belgian, Italian, Polish manucaturers. ČKD made more P.C.C. streetcars then "Pulmann Standard" and "Saint Louis Car Company" combined. T1 and T2 where the 1sts, but the T3 one was the 1st produced in very large quantyties. Only Galaţi had T3's (I don't if is any left preserved), the rest T4's.

@ Colly0410 : quting trolleybuses wasn't a good ideea.
In the '30's you had some intresting looking doble decker trolleybuses down there. I mean this: http://www.sfu.ca/person/dearmond/ar...tingham-24.jpg
There isn't a single country in the world lef to operate double decker trolleybuses... only in museums you can ride them. :tears:
In Bucharest is even worse. Only about 10% of the public transportation income comes from people paying the ride and there is a big lack of spare parts for trams (streetcars), trolleybuses, buses so you can't improve a lot the public transportation.
The subway starting to be built in around 1975 it's more modern. Romanians have tradition in building railways.
We could have had more subway lines, but Nicoale Ceauşescu preffered to spen money on meagolmanic projects in stad of building more subway lines and aftere 1989...

Railways (except for narrow gauage or industrial ones) where started to be electrified lately, so we use 27 k.V. 50 Hz. Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Ukraine (larger gauge) are using the same system, but olny one border crossing is electrified - one to/from Hungary...

Ahh, they are PCCs! The PCC was a big breakthrough in the US when it came out, and as I said, they're still used in a few places. Modern requirements for low floor boarding and all have put them out of favor. Boston still has a line with them, San Francisco and Kenosha do too. Philly has a line of rebuilt ones that have AC inverter drive.

The US had electrics early on, and naturally every railroad used its own system. Sadly, the massive 3,000 volt system out west to Seattle was torn down in the 70's - ironically, the RR tore it down to sell the copper to buy diesels. Then the fuel crunch hit and they went bankrupt. Whoops. There was a lot of electric freight in the east, but Amtrak decided to charge Conrail a lot for electricity, so Conrail shut the lines down.

Railroading in the US is basically a total disaster, especially passenger...

Example of electric trolley that is at the New York Trasportation museum near Rochester.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...2&d=1531707857

In London we have or have had all of these electrically powered systems.

Right now we have the tube, fully electrified since 1961. Docklands Light Rail, the Croydon trams. As a kid I remember the trolley buses. Before my time there was an extensive tram network.

Very close to my house is a DIY store on a site that started as a tram depot and later became a bus depot:
https://www.barnet.gov.uk/citizen-ho...chley-n12.html

Ive ridden many, Light rail in minneapolis, Chicago 'L", and ive gotten to operate an old wooden Twin cities streetcar, instructed by a former motorman. Only got to ride a trolleybus once, a former Milwaukee coach at the illinois railway museum. it was built in the '30s and had much better acceleration than busses do today. Oldest Ive ridden is a Duluth streetcar built in 1893. Have also ridden wooden Chcago "L' cars, and electric interurban trains, including the North Shore line Electroliner. Milwaukee and Chicago were once connected by the best and fastest interurban line, trains every hour on the hour 24 hours a day every day of the year, with extras at rush hour. And the Electroliner even had a bar and food like burgers, but they couldnt compete against the newly opened I-94...once the big holding company that owned it realized they could make more money be selling it all for scrap.

I'm curios, on the "Electroliner" was any car in which smoking wasn't permited?

Here in Nottingham on double decker bus's smoking was permitted on the top deck but banned on the bottom one. If the bottom deck was full & I had to go upstairs there'd be a smokey smelly fug up there & I'd be coughing. Smoking is now banned in all indoor public places/bus's/trains/trams/taxis. People can't smoke in their own cars if children are in it..

I quit smoking and I do hate the smell that gets into you (I can stad the smoke if it isn't to thick).
In Romania we can't have always urban public transportation that carries people only on seats. Surface transportation (and underground one too - only in Bucharest we have subway) would not be able to cope with so many people at some hours and on some routes.

Chicago had something unique in the U.S.A.: streetcars with 3 doors! In Europe 3 doors it's a must in most cases.

Trolleybuses do have a very good acceleration.

I was once told a story from a BC Transit employee when they upgraded to the new Flyer trolley buses that a lot of the drivers were caught off guard at how much more sensitive the accelerator pedal was compared to the old buses. Woosh!

There is actually a group that is trying to get one of the old trolley buses back. Over a decade ago TransLink sold them to Mendoza in South America and the society kept one but a few years ago someone stole the switchcgear out of the bus while it was in storage because of its high copper value and now that Mendoza is trying to phase the buses out the group is trying pretty frantically to get either the switch gear pulled and shipped or a whole bus shipped back but they have so far been unable to secure funding.

We do have all mentioned public transport vehicles except trolley busses but we are going to get electric busses which can be recharged with current collector brackets here in Vienna :thmbsp:

https://www.wienerlinien.at/eportal3...tentId/4200572

I personally prefer city railway especially here on the outskirts where I live.

Anyway, why did Viena quited trolleybuses?