Drill Holes in Admiral
 

Hi guys, I've been watching this Admiral set and have serious concerns over the holes someone has drilled in the face around the screen. I'm assuming this was done to keep the screen mask in place. The hole in the top right corner (that has no screw) isn't even in-line with the other holes. Considering this would seriously detract from the value. I am trying to imagine repairing this Kludge with JB weld and painting the surrounding area (kind of like a picture frame) with a brown paint that was close to the original bakelite. I know it would never look "correct". It is a real shame it was done originally, but "Back-in-the-day". I guess it didn't really matter too much. Thoughts ? The set also looks like it is missing the metal rear cover as well as the High voltage cage cover.
Tony

Your bigger concern is in the fact that the picture tube is blown judging by the dark spot in the middle of the screen. The bad picture tube, missing covers and the screw's in the case unfortunately mean's there is little value except for parts. The screws are probably there from where a magnifier was installed back in the day.

Yeah, too bad yr CRT's Toast, 'cause it looks like a pretty nice set otherwise. If the cabinet isn't cracked/broken, you MIGHT consider getting a replacement CRT from someone here, going thru the set & restoring it to working condition. If its a 10 or 12 set, those CRTs are relatively common, as are the majority of the other tubes. A WORKING one of those sets, thwy're NOT that rare or especially valuable, but they are neat as all hell-and GREAT conversation pieces. Plus, just having a WORKING 1948-50 era TV is a kick in & of itself. Kids are almost always totally AMAZED by them.

I have used J. B. Weld to repair the broken mounting holes for the back cover of my Admiral 26R12 Bakelite cabnet. Ther material was broken off and I built it up with the product. It adheres and drills well.

So, if you do get this set, that would be an option.

Hard to believe that the 10 & 12 inch screen sets were considered "Large Screen" in their day. But, you gotta remember, TV was just barely beyond a laboratory & experimenters' curiosity, & the "State of the Art" was advancing almost on a daily basis. 5 inch CRTs were as big as ANYONE needed, Pilot was cranking out their 2-3" "Candid" models like there was no tomorrow. In any large town, you could walk into a radio shop, plunk down roughly 100 bux, & bring home a 2-3" TV kit, which would likely incur the wrath of yr wife, or parents... The Dumont organization came out w/their megabuck 30" "Royal Sovereign" console, but like so many other things that pushed the envelope, it was NOT a resounding success. They were VERY expensive, a lot went to hotels & bars, where they were run mercilessly, & they had quite a few"Inbred" problems w/the CRT. I think 1000 or so were initially made, they largely all failed, & another run of a 27" "Improved" replacement was done in 1951-52. Very few remain today, & I dunno of any working survivors w/either the 27" CRT or the original ginormous 30" jobs. Aren't you guys glad that you have a Crazee Bestid like ME who can remember all this weird, off the wall shyte like I do, & share it w/everyone ?!? Yeah, I know-Shut Daphck up, Big Boy, & slither back under that rock to Greater Bugtussle, we'll CALL you if we want you....

If the price is reasonable and the chassis intact, I'd go for it. Factor in the cost of a replacement 10BP4 CRT. At least it has all the knobs.

As for repairing the holes. I'd try some wood filler and stain. You don;t need to steel strength of JB Weld. Plus you could remove the filler fairly easily if it doesn't look right. Colored wax or shellac filler stick is another option. Treat it like a damaged piece of wood furniture in other words.

Hi guys, Thanks for all the comments. I knew that the picture tube was shot, so a replacement would be required. I like Bob's idea about the wood filler, and making it reversible. If I was to get only 1 of these sets, the cabinet being original would be high on my list. I think the seller is pretty convinced that it is extremely RARE and valuable. I might make an offer and leave it at that, letting him know the fatal flaws.
Tony

I want to hear more about this 27-inch replacements in 1951-52. Would you please start a new thread about it? (Hate to be hijacking this Admiral thread)

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Gosh, THAT goes back a way. I THINK I remember reading that in "The Cathode Ray Tube" book that was published a good 15, 20 yrs ago. It was only a little blurb about those humongous sets seems like they didn't have adequate getters and/or weren't Aluminumised which apparently affected their performance longevity as well. I'll hve to try to locate my copy of that book, dig it out & report back. I THINK the 27" replacements were much better than their big brothers were, didn't suffer from the same problems at all, or not nearly as bad. I DO remember seeing a pic of the 30s being made, there were 2 guys standing atop/next to one, all dressed to kill in those double-breasted suits w/those big "Peaked" lapels that were The Shit back then... they were obviously bigger sized guys, but another one could have fit next to them & the front of the CRT still wouldn't have been "Full".... I think that Allen B. Dumont & Co just simply didn't have the technical/engineering resources to pulloff an engineering feat like that huge tube. Reminded me of the DeHavilland Comet-The world's 1st jet airliner, from 1949... They went into service, the pride & hope of Great Britain's postwar aircraft industry, but started falling out of the sky. Turned out they used square cut windows, which "Worked" in pressurization & de-pressurization, developed miniscule cracks at the corners, & eventually caused an explosive decompression. Jets were BRAND-EW then, & so was, in a large part, pressurization, the Brits could be forgiven for trying to go w/a totally new & untried bunch of technologies... Pressurisation had been around for awhile, but it still wasn't understood very well. Same w/huge CRTs. At least, none of them ever exploded-But they hastened the eventual end of the Dumont co.

ISTR on (username M3STR8 aka) Lee's Royal Soverign CRT retrofit thread (forget if it was here and or ARF) someone mentioned there being some sort of factory issued retrofit kit for sets in the field with bad CRTs after they discontinued the IIRC 30BP4...If I was in your shoes Jim and happened to really want to use a Soverign with a dud tube I'd consider trying to implement Lee's solution...It seems the most practical one available.

Boys, I'll look for that book tomorrow. There's ANOTHER book I wanna look for "Behind the Tube" from '88 by a guy named Andrew Inglis, who had been a Big Dawg at RCA from practically the beginning of the Radio era, & was an even bigger dawg in the television days. I'm thinking it was perhaps a college textbook, it just had that look & feel to it, & had a lot more technical stuff than a general info book typically has. He was NOT too big a fan of General Sarnoff-But about everything I've read about Der General paints him as a pretty bad, mean, nasty SOB. Well, it takes one to know one, & I'm generally a nasty ol' SOB, too. So there.. (Grin)

Yes, Lee did a nice job with his conversion. But running a 30-inch round set with a 27-inch rectangular CRT in it doesn't interest me at all. It would be a novelty at best.

Right now I'm just trying to find anything that will lead me to any verifiable historical documentation of any replacement 27-inch that Sandy said was already done in 1951-52. I can't really imagine anything like that happening back at the time that 30BP4 CRTs were still available.

When did the first 27-inch CRT come out?

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Again. I'm THINKIN' that the big boys RCA & Zenith had THEIR 27" CRTs by the early fifties. Pretty sure I've seen a picture of one-MAYBE a Zenith. IIRC, it had one of those "Not really rectangular, but not a Roundie either" style CRTs.That's one thing I despise about this hobby-Yet LOVE it at the same time. Virtually no written info exists about about stuff like this, save for grainy print ads. You can claim almost anything about the B/W sets of the day, all we have are fading memories, & precious else info. I know that in 1968-59, there was a push to make CRT screens lots more rectangular, kinda "Square 'em up" as it were. Interesting era....

Peter Kellers book “The Cathode Ray Tube “ says the Rauland 27AP4 was announced anounced in 1952 and RCA produced a similar tube, the 27MP4 in 1953. These were both 90 degree metal cone rectangular tubes, I believe the 27AP4 was the first 27 rectangular CRT.

jr

You could use black resin to fill the holes... might even be able to color match the bakelite, if you're good.

Peter A. Keller ! Ayup, THAT'S the guy ! Strained my brain & couldn't remember his name to save my life.. Don't guess THAT'S ever happened to any of youse Byrds... Sho Nuff is FUN gettin' older, & parts of yr memory start winking out... Last nite, my wife aksed me who was the female lead in that weird film, "Fargo" & I couldn't remember HER, either... Could see her in my minds eye, plain as day, but couldn't lay a handle on her.. Of all the things I've lost I think I miss my Mind the most... Or, wait... Mighta been somethin' else... Hell, I can't remember anymore.... Has'n Fras'n Dirty Ras'n....-Y. Sam. Galoot & esteemed PHilosopher....

Not a bad idea. Too bad that JB Weld is gray because it makes excellent repairs, maybe better than Crazy Glue and clear epoxy. It sure did a great repair for the cabinet of my Admiral and you don't see it under the back cover of course.

Does anyone know if they make epoxy coloring stuff?

Bob has suggested a good alternative. Knobs and good chassis etc. are kinda essential. Tubes and a CRT can always show up... eventually.

The bakelite is swirly dark brown. Yes, you can add dye to epoxy resin. Transtint works well and I've heard wood stain works too. Additives can weaken the epoxy a bit but in this case I hardly think that will be an issue.

Here's a close up look at an example.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7852/...7b0c1d4f_z.jpg

I'm tossing around the idea of taking a chunk of bakelite off of a broken radio cabinet. Then taking a hard disk angle grinder and grind some bakelite into power. Then experiment with various ratios of powder and JB weld to make the grey more brown. I don't think it will effect the strength of the JB weld.
Tony

Bakelite dust is hazardous to your health... not a good idea to grind it up. :thumbsdn:

http://www.sunnyray.org/Toxic-plastics-bakelite.htm

jr

What about filling it with tinted wood filler. You can buy it in many different colors. Dark mahogany might be close.

Shrinkage might be an issue in holes that size. Epoxies, JB Weld etc. don't shrink as there's no solvent gassing off.

I've got an excellent filter mask that I use for painting and it is rated for isocyanates and I plan on doing it outside, so no worries. I've been an automotive painter most of my career, so I know about nasty stuff like bakelite dust.
Tony

They have clear(ish) epoxy glue. Permatex, I think, or Loctite. Maybe either. You could try dyeing that, should work. Also, I've found that epoxy glue doesn't stick to Scotch tape, like the not-sticky side of the regular stuff. Never tried it with the super clear Scotch tape. So I've used it several times to build molds for epoxy glue. Good way to remake a broken plastic boss.

Also, also, bakelite is still made and used. Not a whole lot, but it is still available in ashtrays and some car parts that need high-temp plastics. Just saying, if you need some to grind up, there are options.

Well, dammittall... Lost that book "Behind the Tube" & "The Cathode Ray Tube". 6 weeks/2months ago, we had a flood in my basement, & 2 of the things I LOST-And really so miss-were those 2 books. I may try to find 'em on used booksellers, but I feel like they were both likrly small printings. Dammitt, I SHOULDA brought 'em upstairs....

Sandy, sorry your books were destroyed, from the Keller book, page 155 is this about the 30BP4 ltb/conversion:

“A last-time build of 500 tubes was made for replacment purposes and the 30BP4 was discontinued after only one to two years of production. A conversation kit to allow replacement with a 27-inch rectangular glass picture tube was produced to allow future replacements to be made.”

Footnoted to a interview with John McQueen, June 1989.

Photo of Mr. McQueen, from page 157:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7805/4...97ef69_z_d.jpg

jr

Powell's is one of my go-to places for old books, but they are out of stock on both.
https://www.powells.com/

Thank you, Sandy & jr. That's the first documentation I've seen of this. I've never seen a set that had the conversion done with the kit, only Lee's recent fabrication. My hope now is to someday find factory documentation of this, and a kit or a set with it having been used. Kind of amazing that DuMont would have gone this far to support their used TVs. I wonder if any were ever used.

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Well, think of it this way...The Royal Soverign, if it wasn't Dumont's most expensive product, must have been high up in the running, was sold to hotels and public places (many of which were probably quite highbrow) that probably ran them constantly.

Those sets were probably more of a public representation/advertisement of Dumont than any billboard could ever aspire to be...Looking at it that way I can see why Dumont would want them to live long healthy lives...

My first one came out of an old hotel in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. It got stored in the basement when they got a color TV for their lobby.

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Thanks, guys. The Flood was BIG Fun, lemme tell you what. And my Sweet, Loving "We'll take Care of You" Insurance Company- God Bless their Hearts ! Now, when a Southerner says that, but kinda has his teeth gritted, & has his face curled up into a frightening rictus, he LIKELY means the Exact Opposite... And MY face is curled up as tightly as I can get it. They didn't even send someone out to see me, they just had this joker call from Nashville that allowed that I DIDN'Y have a flood Rider, or some such, they couldn't/wouldn't/no way, Jose' help me. 3-4 yrs back they called me & had me come over to their office to "Review my Homeowner's Needs", & a flood rider was NEVER mentioned. I found out later it was a measley extra $10-25 bucks a month, I woulda said "Go For It", If I'd KNOWN. Buncha gotdang CROOKS... I had a good 6-8" of water in the basement, it flowed up thru the sewer drain, so I had LOTSA cute widdle Turdingtons floating around waving at me. Joy, Joy ! I didn't/haven't been down there, it was slicker than snot on a doorknob, I ain't too steady on my feet, & I DIDN'T wanna fall & go for an impromptu swim in THAT mess. Its cleaned up now, but still....I kinda don't wanna know what all got ruined, if you know what I mean-Yet.

You know in your shoes that is just what I'd tell my current insurance agent/company right before letting them know I switched insurance providers. :D

Don't feed the beast...
Granted a lot of insurance providers only wanna cover your house for the proverbial looneytoon buffalo stampede caused by a lightning strike during a hail storm on the 4th of july scenario....
Gotta read the chit outa everything what they DON'T say they cover is just as important to think of as what they DO cover...A lot of them try NOT to sell flood insurance if they can.

In Florida after that nasty quartet+ of hurricanes, they got in ~2003-4 State Farm lost so much moolah that they (and supposedly a few other firms) supposedly stopped issuing new homeowners insurance in Florida...When we moved there we apparently got a policy just before they did that...IIRC they started covering inland eventually, but the coasts are still skrewed.

Well, I DID manage to find my copy of the Cathode Ray Tube, its FINE... Maybe I'll run up on "Behind the Tube" as well. And yes, I got on the Internoot looking for them-before I found the Keller book. I THINK he joined us awhile back, posted a time or 2, thenfaded away. But THIS is what absolutely BURNS ME UP about the internet- I'm looking for a used book, $45 or whatever. To buy the damthing, you gotta give 'em yr life history, all neatly typed out, of course, grandmother's maiden name, what yr daddy's blood type was, the whole schmear. Gottagive 'em a password-do you want windblows to remember this password?-all this other nonsense to buy a used book.... Jesus, Mary & Joeseph, I'm buying a USED book, I ain't wanting to open a checking account, or open up a new credit card... What would be so terrible to have some kid-Or, better yet-a disabled veteran- answer the phone, take down the info from the customer, his credit card info, ship out the damn book... OK, OK, it ain't all "Hi-Tech" like apparently EVERYTHING must absotively, positive HAS to be nowadays, but for the love of Gawd-Gimme a break.... I kinda like to speak to a Gen-You-Wine, live human type being instead of aggervating my Arthur typing in all the info they want. Yeah, I know-I'm an effin Luddite... Proud of it too, Bub-Wanna make somethin' of it ?!? (Grin)

Oh, yeah- all those insurance ads plastered on TV-This makes me wanna buy YOUR insurance WHY, you asinine Schmuckelovitch ? And they ALL gotta so effin cute & sweet-Just don't submit a claim, you filthy bestid, WE'LL show YOU who's Boss.... I'm w/Tennessee Farmer's Insurance-Loyal customer for nigh on to 25 yrs-And I felt as if I was Screwed, Blued, Tattooed-And not even Kissed. As my man, R.Lee Ermey woulda put it-You wouldn't even show the goddam courtesy to give a man a Reach-Around.... ALWAYS Loved ol R. Lee.... Yeah, I know that I'm Crazier than yr basic Shithouse Rat, ain't I Mbwahahahahahaha....

Glad you found your book...hopefully it don't stink bad enough to be relegated to the throne library.

They shouldn't need your ma's maid to sell ya a $45 book...Most cheaper online retailers only need a user name/password (they expect ya to be a pete'n'repeat customer), shippin/billin address, and yer credit info...Most places I but from on the interwebs that is the case...Even when I spend $600 at mouser on overpriced 40KV doorknob caps and a years supply of film'n'lytics they don't bug me for more info...Hell, they save my address so I don't gotta re type it, and they'd do the same for my card if I'd check the box for it.
Only time I ever got prompted for more info was early in the year when I speced out ~1.5K$ worth of parts to build my own high end computer on newegg...IIRC they wanted socialist security digits and some other jumping fancy hoop...Was worth it for a powerful rig that I should be able to keep useful for any purpose the next 7-20 years...The dinosaurs it replaced were gettin hot enough to fry an egg on'n'coughing up blood when editing video.

Well, I know that SOME of the info they want they REALLY do need, I understand that. but so much of it-requiring you to select a username, password, all that kinda rubs me the wrong way, & GUARANTEES I WON'T be a Re-Pete, if I can help it. We hear constant complaining from Der Boxe' De Idiote' about how brick 'n' mortar stores are DYING, the internet is The Wave Of The Future... Not by ME, it ain't... I'd much rather lay my goods up on a checkout aisle, whup out my dinero, or my Amex/Visa, sign for it, pick up the bag, & toodle out. Easy-Peasy...

Some Internet sites will allow you to buy merchandise as a "guest," not a registered user. Like Tom C. says that route might require you to list your address and credit card info each time. Take your pick.

Well, seems like the ones I manage to hit always want all that rot.. And they likely don't have a phone number either, so you can't call 'em... Grrrrrrr... Bless their l'il Pea-Pickin' Hearts....

Did you try Powels for your used book search, they are telephone friendly, and have a HUGE selection of used books.

https://www.powells.com/info/contact-us

not affiliated,
jr