The CTC-5 Made it to Germany already!
 

My old CTC-5 is now in the capable hands of Eckhard Etzold and it will be going through a complete restoration shortly!
It made the trip to Germany intact with no damage, here is a picture he sent me of it displaying a local program there.

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It was shipped expedited air, I shipped Monday he should have gotten it by Thursday. It was in the high hundreds.

<sigh>

Well, she's got a good new home now :)

Yeah, Kam, my thoughts exactly...-Sandy G.

He must be using a TV standards converter, as Germany is a PAL country, (or SECAM if he's in what was East Germany) and the TV expects NTSC. Different scan rates and differing color encoding methods.

Another problem would be the powerline. Aside from the obvious voltage difference (220V vs 120V) there is the issue of the line frequency, 50 vs 60 Hz. As higher frequencies allow for smaller transformer core, its power transformer may get unhappy on 50Hz. Core saturation may start, making it overheat. As the transformer is likely designed to accept up to 130V 60Hz before saturation starts to kick in, it should be able to take 50/60 of that on 50Hz. About 108V, maybe 110, which would be the low end of American voltage supply. Something to look out for. If the transformer gets very
hot, this may be doing it.

I doubt that the power transformer will get hot, It's a 25 cycle unit!
Remember this tv was "Canadianized" when it was originally exported to that country.

It must be a biggie! A 120V 25Hz transformer will work on 240V 50Hz just
fine. HOWEVER the rest of the set will become rather unhappy with all of the secondary voltages being double :no: If you really wanted to, you could split the 6.3V heater tubes into two equal current halves, and feed those halves with the old 6.3V now 12.6V heater winding. The high voltage secondary (I assume has a center tap) will be double its old voltage, so I'd use just one section of it feeding a bridge rectifier composed of the 5U4 or such rectifier tube the set uses for the positive end, and a pair of silicon rectifier diodes for the negative end. Also the 5u4 heater voltage will need to be reduced. I doubt that anyone would want to go to this much bother.

But it would be much easier to just use an autoformer to convert the 220V to 120V, and the set stays closer to original.

Wonder if the new caretaker would like to be a part of our little debating society here? Wonder if he spreckens ze Englischer well enuff to join in? Just a thought...-Sandy G.

He's just stepping down the 220 and has a PAL to NTSC converter that he is using on the set.
Just talked to him and am hoping he can find me an original Dual turntable for my German market Saba combo! As I have asked my relatives in Berlin and they haven't a clue as to what I need and are not into antique electronics.

Bloody awsome. Great to see these early sets getting exported worldwide. I heard that some Brits acquired a couple of CT-100s through the netvine.

I'll have to one day (when I've got enough money to splash around) import a roundie to Australia and be the first Aussie to own a roundie colour telly :thmbsp: ! Then I will hook up my Austar box via VCR to the telly, tune to the Fox Footy Channel and take a photo of the screen whilst an AFL footy game http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3...jump_getty.jpg is in session and post it here in the forum as part of the Aussie tradition :D :lmao: ! And then take some snaps of the Footy Show as well http://www.newcastleknights.com.au/s...tyshowdvdP.jpg :lmao: . Well I will take a photo of something Australian on the screen anyhow :thmbsp: !

Hope one day I'll have the opportunity.

I just received an E-mail from Mr Etzold looking for a Flyback for a CTC-5.
Guessing it's for this set? (maybe it fried?)
Anyway I have a used one but it's leaking a gob of wax and told him he might want to come here and see if anyone has a better spare.

Eric

Hello, let me enter your discussion. I have a 230 to 117 volts converter which is working well (output is 117 volts.) The set has an extra transformer for the 405 volt d.c.. The transformer remains cool even after watching two hours tv. This is ok. The origin transformer in the set generates only the heating voltage, which is with 6.7 volts more than the regular 6.8 volts. The tubes are little overheated. Is this acceptable or should I lower to voltage to 6.3 volts?
The signal conversion is easy with a dvd player. I can switch it to NTSC with 60 frames per second. For the conversion of the local tv program I have a PAL to NTSC converter which converts only the carrier from 4.43 mc to 3.58 mc. With vertical hold I tune it to 50 frames, the line frequency is nearly the same with 15,625 cycles. Some trouble I have with the video impedance of 75 ohms and 1 kohms, the input overdrives.
The flyback is getting hot after one hour, appr. 60 degrees celsius. I am not shure about its condition. Wax is leaking. I have conservated it with "Plastik 70", a kind of pourable plastic. The focus control (200 kohm) is bad. But I have to check the whole horizontal output unit.
Here in Germany we are only two collectors of old U.S. tv sets, as far as I know. The other one lives near Munich, he is also looking for a flyback for his ctc5 which is not in working condition, and I try to help him. He has sent me a rf-modulator with the correct audio if (4.5 mc), this is neccesary because the PAL carrier with 4.43 mc is very close to it.

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They also have Armed Forces Network (AFN) in Germany. That signal is in our American frequency. There are no modifications needed to watch an American set. You can buy transformers in the PX that will convert the voltage for you. (220v to 120v) As I remember there was an antenna that you turned a certain way to get the German TV stations. I think they are on 9mhz and we are on 10mhz??? I had no issues with my mid 70's GE when I lived there 14 years ago. All this was through the air with an antenna. NO CABLE TV!!!!



polaraman

Paper caps are renewed. I have a big transformer for 115 volts. But the powerline in Germany is changing. Before 12 years we had 220 volts, now we have 230 volts, that's the problem. Today we have 225 volts here in my house. I can lower the main power to 110 volts by using a 3.3 Ohm resistor (50 watts).
Another problem I noticed, happens in the first seconds after switching on the set. The rectifier tubes (5U4GB) light upe very quickly and the electrolytics were loaded with more than 540 volts. But they are specified only for appr. 400 volts. My suggestion: Parallel to the main switch in the set I solder a rectifier diode (p600d), so the set gets only half the power consumption when connecting with the mains. And when the tubes lighted up, I switch the set on. The voltage at the electrolytics (c105, c106) remains in the specified range.

I don't get AFN on the air here in Brunswick. I lived in Berlin for some years, where we had AFN (and it's wonderful music, I miss it here).
Antenna: German tv stations transmit in horizontal polarisation, AFN is transmitted vertical. You had to turn the antenna for 90 ° to receive AFN.

Isn't this set a power transformer operated set? I don't think that the power transformer is gonna like having a rectifier diode between it and the powerline.

Anyway, many electrolytic caps can take a few seconds of overvoltage. Some are marked with "surge voltage" ratings.

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> Very true about the transformer not wanting to see DC.

Yes, it doesn't work with U.S.-tv sets. We can do it in Germany with old tube tv's. They have no transformer and serial heating.
I have lowered the AC current down to 108 volts which results in 6.3 volt heating voltage. There are less arcs than before in the horizontal output stage. With 104 volts the set is working properly, but the picture is too small now. The flyback is cool even after an hour.
The total power consumption noted on the back is 350 watts. But I measured ony 260 to 270 watts (2.5 A).Are there such discrepances in total power consumption?

I think the method of operation here with the diode is like when a diode is used without a filter cap in the "instant on" circuit of TV's....part of the AC waveform is cut off so that the effective voltage is lower.
How is the horizontal output tube current/horizontal efficiency coil adjustment?
Does this set have a width switch that may be adjusted?

Somewhere on an RCA color tv schematic I saw that the filament winding of the power transformer actually produced 6.8 volts? I have not actually measured the filament voltage in an RCA set to check.

I think it would be a good idea for this guy to buy a autotransformer.{variac}.
Also make sure you have a fuse on the ac line.{mains} to be safe.

ctc-5
 

> How is the horizontal output tube current/horizontal efficiency coil
> adjustment?

I'm very busy at work in the moment. Next weekend I have time enough to open the set and to measure the horizontal output tube current.

> Does this set have a width switch that may be adjusted?

Yes, it has, I have selected the greatest width position. With 108 volts I get full screen width, see attached a photo from the sports in tv this week. Red, blue and green drive I had adjusted meanwhile.

> I think it would be a good idea for this guy to buy a
> autotransformer.{variac}.

OK! I will see what I get here. I shall need a whole transformer park for this set ;-) First a 230 voltage variac, then the 230 volts downward transformer for 110 volts, then the transformer module for canadian 25 cycles which came with the set...

Yagosaga- Pretty good picture, I'd say ! I hope you know how LUCKY you are to have this old set-and that it made it all the way to Germany in one piece !! It is TRULY a treasure. Furthermore, am glad you've decided to join our little discussion group here-lots of very good info & good fellowship... Enjoy !!-Sandy G.

Yes, it's really a tresure. I have done my first restauration job of a color tv set in 1975, and I need one year for it. It was a Saba Schauninsland T2500E color, a German set from 1967/1968 with a A63-11X color crt. This is 30 years ago. I have seen many unnumbered color tv sets since that time, but I never touched a set with my own fingers which is older than 1967. I knew that Americans had color tv even in the 1950s. But I didn'nt believe that I would get such a set in my whole lifetime. This is not only a set, but it's a piece of history for itself, which one can find only in the U.S..
The most beautiful German color tv set ever manufactored was - in my opinion - the first Telefunken set of 1967, the PALcolor 708. Here is a photo of this set from a guy who lives in Wuppertal. A set with a strong A63-11X, very rare. (Most of this color crt's had a bad red gun after appr. six years.)

Wow !! EXTRAORDINARY picture on that Telefunken !! Looks like it's in superb cosmetic shape, too-and the CRT doesn't have that ugly black band around it like a lot of Brit/Euro TVs do-is that TV tube/transistor or hybrid? -Sandy G.

Is that a wooden mask around the CRT, or painted metal?
A beatiful set, I like the nice clean lines of those German sets.

Yes, it is a set in excellent condition. It is a hybrid tv set with tubes and transistors. A documentation of it (only in German) I have on:

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...alcolor708.htm

Schematics can be found under "Schaltplan", click the word "Einheitschassis". You will see that this set is based upon early U.S. color tv technology with 380 volts D.C., shunt regulator and so on.

Another set of this era (with the ugly black band around it) I have documentated on

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...z/metz6285.htm

This set belongs to me, I got it before 15 years, and it has the first chromacolor tube (A66-120X) with very strong guns.

It is a wooden mask. As I said, there were very few models which had this wooden mask, this Telefunken, and the Saba Schauinsland T2500E color. Since 1969 the manufactores changed to the "push-trough-crt's" (I don't know the correct English word, those crt's with the ugly black band around it), and with it the design lost it's beautiness.

I've always liked the "look" of German products-and the "feel". The old Grundig & SABA radio sets of the 1950s-'60s all had a VERY substantial "feel" to them-and generally, they sounded quite good, too !! My Rohde & Schwarz EK-07 Boatanchor-all the knobs have this ultra smooth, almost "buttery" feel to 'em- sorta like "everything's turning in oil". An R-390A Boatanchor, by contrast, feels, well..."agricultural" by comparison. The wooden mask on that TV is pure class, IMHO. We lost a LOT when black plastic became our god...-Sandy G.

Transformer park, thats funny. Can you tap the 230v step down transformer to 120.
purchase an american 120v auto transformer and plug it into the 230 stepdown transformer and then turn up the auto transformer output to 110. That way you do not have to worry about 5u4 arcs and surge voltages, etc.
My mains put out 122v here if i plug my ctc5s into the mains with out a variac the 5u4s put on a light show and the flyback gets hot.{ctc5s transformers sold in the us are rated at117v}Your set has a vary nice picture. Alot of work to get them going.
German electronics are well made. I have 2 Grundig radios. They were easy to fix and
sound great.

Before one year, when our daily used Tv set was destroyed by a powerline defect (powerline had 400 volts instead of 230 volts) I tried to buy a new tv set wíth a wooden mask but it was impossible. Only plastic sets are available. I like that old wooden sets, mostly those from the 1950s. I have one old Grundig b/w tv tabletop set with a radio in good condition, which was already often photographed by photographs for journals and newspapers because of it's wonderful design. Saba made also excellent radios and sets, I own a Saba Meersburg 7, which might be one of the best, easy to service. But in the 1960s radios and tv sets become more and more plastic parts and they aren't as beautiful as before.

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...ig/type349.htm

Thank you very much for that advice. Without it I had buyed one in Germany. But to buy an U.S. type on ebay might be the better way. Attached a photo of my Grundig tv radio tabletop model in a German journal.

Wow. Wow... That Grundig television is absolutely beautiful. I always have loved the styling of the Grundig sets, with the big slide-rule dial scale and large knobs, and the piano key switches. I'd never seen that in a television before, but I like it :) I've got a Grundig console hi-fi with a very similar tuning scale and layout, and I love it. It sounds wonderful on the phono, but the radio plays weak. I just need to get off my butt and replace the caps in the circuit... Can't complain though, I found the console on the side of the road, waiting for the garbage. Hard to believe someone would throw out something so beautiful, but I guess people would much rather have the cheap, Wal-Mart crap these days.

As for the styling of newer European sets, with the black band around the tube, from what I can tell, it's just that they mounted the tube such that the entire glass section sticks through the front, rather than cover up the edges with a bezel like the American sets. I actually kinda always thought that looked neat, at least on some of the 60's/70's B&W 12" sets. Never seen one in person, only in pictures, but since that sort of 12" plastic portable set is so common here, and they all have the same basic design, having the entire tube visable makes it look a little more interesting. Never been able to find one like it here though, something tells me I won't. Doubtful that anyone moving from Europe to the US would bother bringing along a cheap 12" black and white television, only to have it be totally incompatible with the US systems...

-Ian

piano key switches: well spoken! In Germany we call it in a common manner the "Gebissradio" (= the set-of-teeth-radio)...

This was very modern in my childhood. Everyone wants such a breathtaking set, and everyone want to touch the screen and feel the curves of the glass... ;-) Here is a color tv set with a bezel and a sticks-through crt:

http://bs.cyty.com/stjakobi/unskirch...-Jakobiz74.jpg

(this PAL tv set has a color *and* a tint control!)

and the first Telefunken solid state portable (with a delta-crt):

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...inBetrieb2.JPG

Grundig used the same crt-type. They didn't stick it through the cabinet but used a bezel:

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...2000TDvorn.jpg

Not as beautiful as the elder models was the second Telefunken color tv:

http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...inBetrieb2.JPG

On the website of Marcel van Grinsvens TV-Museum you can see a lot of european sets (this is - in my opinion - one of the largest documentation of european early tv sets on the web, but the site is completely in dutch language. Marcel doesn't understand English, it's very difficult to communicate with him. But his website is worthy to visit:

http://www.marcelstvmuseum.com/

A lot of really interesting sets at Marcel's museum, interesting how different trends in design evolve. I do rather like the look of the fully exposed CRT face, probably because it's so different. I've never seen an American TV like that. That second Telefunken color set is a very nice looking one, I like the clean lines and the balanced design. Another thing I've noticed is that it seems to be more popular in the european sets to have the controls mounted lower, and the speaker above them - exactly opposite most American televisons, where the controls are normally mounted closer to the top of the set. Another big difference in the apperance of the European sets is the lack of tuning knobs, something that persisted in the US until the 80's. Nearly every American TV from the 70's will have two knobs, one for VHF (Channels 1-13, and a position to select UHF) and one for UHF (14 - 83). My guess is that the European sets didn't have to worry about dealing with such a large number of channels, so pushbutton tuning was practical even without digital tuners. I'm not familliar with the TV system outside the US, I know that most of Europe uses PAL, and France uses SECAM, but I don't know about the channel allocation. Just, from looking at the sets, there are six pushbuttons on that Telefunken, so what, six channels?

Now, that's not to suggest that the US has more channels, we just have more channel numbers. To prevent overlapping transmitters in different areas, the stations are spread around the band a little. It's not uncommon to only be able to pick up three channels in an area, and a couple weak UHF stations.

-Ian

In the 1960s and 1970s we only had three tv channels, they were ARD, ZDF and the third (culture) channel. But ARD and ZDF were the main channels. (The second tv channel, ZDF, came in 1963.) Some people near the border to other countries could get even five or six channels . In my region we had the two GDR channels too, but could see them only in b&w, because the early PAL sets had no SECAM module. Channel range is VHF with channel 2 - 12 and UHF with channel 21 - 69. Our channel width is 7 Mc from picture carrier to the picture carrier of the next channel.In 1984 we got commercial tv, today we get 25 channels (commercial and national broadcasting), our tv system (on the air) now is dvb-t, and I convert it to PAL or to NTSC.

The horizontal output tube cathode current is 182 ma (at 108 volts power line) with no difference whether I set picture width switch in wide, middle or small position. Horizontal width is too small even in the wide position. In the service manual I found only noted, "the reading should not exceed 220 ma". 180 ma seems too less.
Parallel to L106 (horizontal tuning coil) there has to be a 0.15 capacitor (c114) according to the service manual. But only 0.1 were installed. Might it have an effect on the picture width?

Eckhard. Have the caps been replaced? I assume you did. I checked my manual and c114 shows a .01. One end connects to pin 3 of the 6cg7 the other end to ground. Check pin 3 on the 6cg7. The voltage should be around 10v. If it is, you should be ok. Check the horz drive voltage. Should be around -38v.to -40v on pins 4-5 on the 6cb5. If ok Turn the ac up to 110v. Set the width switch to the middle position and check the horz current. see what you get. I have mine set to 198 ma with the ac set to 114v. Another thing you should check is the high voltage regulator current The reading should be around 0.8 ma with the brightness turned all the way down.The high voltage to the crt should be around 22kv. You have to take the information you read in a manual with a grain of salt. Sometimes they make mistakes.{only human}Or rca did a production change. Voltage readings may be off by a couple volts. or you see parts that show a diffrent value. That is normal. I go by the value of the old part I am replacing.as long as it looks like the original part. Another thing, If you replace the caps in the power supply make sure the value of the replacement is the same as the original. If you go to high{80uf to 100uf} It may upset other sections of the chassis and can make the flyback run hot.{ Been there, Done it, Diden't like it.}
good luck
ED

Caps already had been replaced (except for the color units) before I get the set. I have changed c114 to 0.1. Horizontal drive voltage is -20v on pin 5 on the 6CB5 (with 105 volts ac). The +385 v supply has only 317 volts (with 105 ac) and 365 volts with 114 volts ac. I measured crt heating voltage again, but now directly on pin 1 and 14 of the crt, it is 6.15v (with 114 ac). But I checked the focus control R129 and opened it. It had burned out inside, see photo. The focus control seems to be the true source of inconstant picture and arcings! I have renewed it. The picture now is sharp and clear with rich contrast and brightness. But there is still something to do to set the d.c. currents properly. Perhaps the 5U4 are weak because of the additional electrolytics for the canadian 25 cycle rectifying.

So Erick is gonna get his hands on an old color tv. Uhh. I want a one like taht too!

With the width control set at center and the ac at 114v. Do the sides of the picture fill the screen? What is the horz current reading at 114v ac? Check the high voltage to the crt, Is it around 22kv? Did you check the high voltage regulator current {6bk4}? When you are running the set on a lower ac voltage, The dc and heater readings will be a little low.That is normal. I am glad you are getting a good picture, Makes it worth all the work you are doing to the set. When you get the time, Replace the caps in the color section.{To avoid problems}
ED