Color cameras
 

"R.C.A." was the only producer of tv cameras in the '50's?

Sez here that the RCA TK-41 from '55 was about the best there was at the time-its only serious competitor was a very similar camera offered by General Electric. -Sandy G.

And the "Genaral-Elect (G.E.)" camera was ever used? I'll put the same question, this time for b & w cameras?

I dunno about that. All I know is that when I was a kid, anytime they showed a TV station on TV, there were ALWAYS a bunch of TK-41s milling around like dinosaurs. They have a very distinctive shape, a sort of humpback look to them, have "Color Television" written on the side in VERY 1950s looking script.I remember on one "Star Trek" episode, they were on a planet where Rome never fell, had evolved into a modern society complete w/television & TK-41s in the studio,& w/guys in white shirts & skinny ties runnin' them...<grin>-Sandy G.

Tough to miss a TK-41. The curved housing for the viewfinder, "Color Television" script on the sides (in metal!) and HUGE!! There's a certain beauty to it. See?

http://www.novia.net/~ereitan/images/TK41R1_E.gif

I always wanted one of th' dam' theengs. Have absolutely no use for it, nowhere to put it, but just think it would be kewl as hell to have one. Supposedly there are a couple at Maryville college that are looking for a home, but I never have checked it out. I'm afraid if I did, I'd fall in love & have to bring 'em home...And I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't need 'em..but I sure would like to have one & luv it & shine it up 'n' pet it 'n' play wif it 'n' call it "George".....-Sandy G.

Along with RCA & GE, Dumont produced B&W cameras in the 40's & early '50's. As for TK-40 & TK-41 color cameras, UCLA TV & Radio Archives has 3 of them. And TV camera collector Chuck Pharis has several of all types of 40's, 50's & 60's era cameras. http://pharis-video.com/index.htm

I also know of at least 2 other early RCA color cameras in private collections. A picture of me standing behind a collector's TK-40 can be seen (last item) on my web page.

-Steve D.

In regards of colour cameras, during the 50s in USA the RCA TK-40 and TK-41s were THE colour cameras of the 50s and 60s and even 70s because they produced bloody good pictures :thmbsp: !!! The other competitor of cameras during the 50s as one of you's said is the General Electric PE-15A http://www.pharis-video.com/pe-15a.jpg which obviously is based off the TK-40/41 design. Also in the early 50s CBS had their own colour cameras for their colour wheel system and they also have converted some B&W IO cameras to colour using a colour wheel in front of the camera IO tube. In UK when BBC was experimenting with colour in the 50s they Marconi made colour cameras which were also based off the TK-41 design.

As for B&W cameras, well quite a lot of brands: Marconi, RCA, Dage, Dumont, PYE, EMI and many more, check Chuck's camera brands page http://www.pharis-video.com/p1930.htm .

I too wish I owned a TK-41 camera myself, would be bloody awsome especially if it were working as it would be so interesting to get first hand experience of what living colour was like in the 50s. If Chuck gets a few of TK-41s going and is willing to sell any and I happen to get rich I will buy one of his working 41s and get it shipped to Australia and use it wherever I go shooting anything in living colour 50s style :thmbsp: ! Though I'd need an OB van as well.

What would be real cool is when Chuck one day gets his TK-40/41s going is have them featured on the news or doco which they can compare the picture of a TK-40/41 to a picture of a modern CCD studio camera which the host/news man would say "this is how living colour looked back in 1954" while being shot on a TK-40/41. Don't know how Chuck's going with his restoration on his TK-40 lately but hopefully he'll get it working sometime soon. I'm real stoked he's got 3 of his old TK-30 cameras from 1947 up and working http://www.pharis-video.com/p4984.htm , bloody awsome :thmbsp: !!!

Cheers
Troy

For me, it is enough if I can get a DVD recording of an actual TK-41 recording of today. Is it possible?

yagosaga wrote:
Yes when Chuck Pharis gets his TK-40 and 41 cameras up and going which may be a few years away though and I guess you'd have to try and make some sort of deal with him for a copy. I know I will be emailing him in a flash for a DVD or VHS copy of his TK-40 or 41 in action if he gets them going and willing to pay a fair whack of money too.

Cheers
Troy

I have emailed Kris Trexler who has a RCA TK-41 too, to ask him for a dvd recording with the TK-41 as the video input source.
http://www.ev1.pair.com/colorTV/myTK41_2.html

The answer will be yes that you can output video from really old cameras to a modern recording medium, one thing to remember too is studio cameras are generally hooked up to rack CCU equipment and the composite video output would come out from the CCU equipment I assume. The video sockets would probably be of some old format along the lines of UHF http://www.fabian.com.mt/PAGESgifs/R.../so239_tnc.jpg correct me if I'm wrong?

Anyhow Chuck's mate in the UK whom collects old broadcast cameras too has kindly dubbed me a VHS copy of his 1963 EMI B&W image orthicon camera in action which he pointed the camera around in his house and also pointed it to the CCU which he demonstrated the adjustments on the camera.

So I assume it all boils down to composite video signal output which in the case of studio cameras it would come from the CCU.

Cheers
Troy

Hi, the connections seems not the real problem. If the camera is working there will be a way to output the video signal. ;-) The major problem is to get such an old camera into working condition inclusive warm ups and waitings till the colors are reliable and so on.
On ebay is a RCA TK-46, see "1970's RCA TK-46 Color TV Station Camera ITE Tripod NRs, Item number: 7513503215.
Cheers
Eckhard

Kris Trexler answered: "Thanks for your message. Unfortunately my camera is not in working condition and it never will be." But for getting an impression of the picture quality of a RCA TK-41 he recommended to buy a DVD copy of the Ford Show in color which are available on
http://www.ernieford.com/TVSet.htm
The later 1959 shows are in color and most of the 1960 and 1961 shows. I think, this is an interesting alternative.

Another idea would be to order the DVDs of the Dean Martin Show from the infomercials. The first few years of the show were done with TK-41s.

@yagosaga: do you own an "R.C.A." TK-41 camera?

RCA TK-46 on ebay
 

No. The only camera I have is a one-tube color japanese JVC camera from 1978. But the picture is already very dim. I think to find a working TK-41 is much rarer than to find a working RCA ct-100.
One newer model is offered on ebay, a RCA TK-46:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7513503215
Meanwhile I got another email from an AK member with a location of a Jan. 1964 color telecast on NBC using TK-41 cameras, originally videotaped:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...d&vi=tech-info
These DVDs are Region 1 only and can't be displayed on European or Australian DVD players. (I see I have to get an U.S. DVD player ;-)

Steve Dichter informed me that the DVD "Cole Porter - An All-Star Tribute (Bell Telephone Hour January 28, 1964)", availbale at Amazon, is a recording of a Jan. 1964 color telecast on NBC using TK-41 cameras. It was originally videotaped. Today I received this DVD. It is a great recording in video and content. I'm really surprised how good was the color quality already in the 1960s. With a high resolution tv set some video noise is visible, but I think this depends on the lower quality of the video tape in the early 1960s. Additional to that this DVD contains some bonus tracks in color with Ethel Merman on the Bell Telephone Hour from Jan. 29, 1960! On a rectanguar screen one can see the darker corners of the TK-41 picture. This is really exciting!

Eckhard,

Thought that Cole Porter DVD would do the trick. It must have been like a shot of Viagra for your CTC-5. The 1960 Ethel Merman segment is a nice bonus. Our local Public Broadcasting station, channel 50. ran all he color Ernie Ford shows a while back. Naturally I didn't tape any of them. I won't be napping when they come around again.
And just so we don't wander to far from the original thread, Chuck Pharis is getting pretty close to that working TK-41 color.

-Steve D.

Last night I watched that old tv shows with the CTC-5. It is really an adventure for me, because this gave me a real feeling what color tv was and looks like in the late 1950s and early 1960s. In the foreground it was my technical interest to study the screen and the picture: how are the lights, the color? What is with color convergence of the TK-41? What is with the picture geometry, what is with the gradation?
On videotape I have one of the first telecasts in color here in Germany from August 1967 in PAL. I should provide a copy of it on DVD so you can see the differences. But before I have to manage a video conversation on my computer.
In comparison I have to say what I have already said here: the NTSC color is much more vivid like our early color tv programmes in the late 1960s. It depends on the missing hue control in PAL. These old videotaped shows have so natural colors which I never expected for that time. (If the colors were in right hue balance.)
This are good news. If he is a good salesman he will do some good video recordings with the operating TK-41 and than he can sell them (like the copies of the indian tv test pattern.

Tk-41
 

Speaking of the TK-41 this frame capture came from the Dragnet 1967 DVD.
Friday is appearing on a TV show and he walks onstage between these two cameras!

Conrac
 

In the background of the above picture you can see this Conrac monitor.
It's B&W but they did some trickery and made it color in this shot.

Conrac-2
 

Here's the same Conrac from the front, this time it's an actual screen shot and you can tell it's B&W!

There was a TK 41 used as a prop for a recent music video. The music video is the song "Hey Ya" by Outcast. They recreated a bandstand type of show. The only thing that bothered me was the B/W set the folks were watching in the video. I would have thought they would have a color set with a TK 41. The scene kept on switching from TV studio to some folks house. I do not like the music but the video was pretty cool. It had a lot of the retro stuff in the video. I often wonder where they got the TK 41!


polaraman

Rumor has it there's a (couple) TK-41s in dead storage in Maryville College below Knoxville. I wonder if they have the whole shebang, if they are truly there. If I didn't have this bum-ass leg, I might be tempted to check it out.-Sandy G.

I suspect a lot of studio monitros were actually B&W, with maybe 1 or 2 color ones to watch the color signal.

American Bandstand? Wasn't ABC like the last ones to go color, and only then with Norelco cameras? :)

You are correct sir. Back in the 60's when I started in broadcasting we used mostly Conrac b&w monitors on the studio floor. This was mainly for reference even during our live and tape color telecasts. We would also have a regular home color receiver with a demodulator on stage so the talent could see how their make up and wardrobe ect. looked. The big time color monitors were in the control room. ABC was the last of the then big 3 networks to go color. I believe they used some RCA TK-41's for their earliest color broadcasts such as "Hollywood Palace." Chuck Pharis would know much more about early ABC
color.

-Steve D.

Thanks for the report on the DVD - I had a gift certificate for amazon, whichI have just used to orderthe DVD.

Hi Steve. Yes ABC definitely did use TK-41s for Hollywood Palace as I've downloaded a colour clip of Judy Garland singing on the show off a file sharing network and as she was singing the sequins on her dress reflecting the spotlights gave purple halos, so the show definitely used TK-41s.

Cheers
Troy

Jeez, talk about bringing back memories. Attended a wgn (taping or live?) of an old "barn dance" program when I was knee high to a grasshopper.
Didn't know tech, but after the program was done the cameras were opened up to cool, saw a pix of the rca opened up on one of the sites lately and my jaw dropped, it was the old humpback and it opened like that.
googling got me this
"Wholesome music and humor with a country sound.
Moved to WGN Radio in 1960 (from WLS, where it debuted in 1924).
Aired on WGN Radio and TV (1962+)on Saturday nights until 1969. "

Sounds about right.

wow :D

TK-41 Pictures
 

Kris Trexler's "King of the Road" site TK-41 page has several pix of ABC, CBS, NBC and even WGN TK-41 cameras in action.

http://www.kingoftheroad.net/colorTV...in-action.html

-Steve D.

if the TK-41 was the beginning of the chain ....and your roundie was at the other end ....how good was the equipment in between?

in an era before solid state equipment how good was the actual broadcast signal?

and how often was that hue control on your 1950s roundie used?