Bonanza on TV land
 

Somehow watching the early Bonanze episodes on TV land doesnt bring out the same oh-wow feel as it did when they were originally broadcast, althought the storylines are always good, somehow I remember a much better rendition on NBC. I guess I'm just getting old.

I agree. The episodes seem campy now.However back in the 60s you couldn't pry me away from the tv on Sundays at 10pm.
Remember High Chapparel? That was a great western.I also watched Wagon Train.Those were the days.No stinkin reality TV back then

Alan

Well, the old 35mm broadcast prints were processed in real Technicolor. The prints you see today are on boring Eastman color. That makes a BIG difference.

Plus you are getting pixelization and loss of resolution on cable and satellite. But then you are also losing the ghosting and other noise you would have had back in the 60's with that analog antenna so maybe it evens out.

Try turning your saturation control up ; )

Dollar DVD's...
 

That same visual impact is also missing from the cheap two-episode DVD's. Maybe when blu-ray or the other HD DVD format becomes a reality later this year, the transfers will improve.

I hate to think how those great prints looked in a small town NBC station that just got hooked up to ATand T's cross country microwave system 30 or 40 hops out of NY. Oh they just converted their B/W transmitter to pass color and I have one of the first color sets in town and the shop that sold it to me does not really know how to set it up. But I might think anything color looks good just the magic of it at the time.

Our round sets today have a much better picture then they ever did when they were new.

I believe those telecines at the time probably used vidicons -
can you say "lag"?
can you say "shading"?
- also quite possibly no matrix between the R,G, and B;

but then again, NBC may have used a "masking" unit (essentially an adjustable color correction matrix) which would improve the color saturation, especially the greens, which are weak in a straight vidicon camera due to effects of the built-in vidicon gamma curve, Actually all colors could be improved to undo most of the reduced saturation in the film. Such a circuit would amplify noise too much to use with live-pickup image orthicon cameras, but could be used with the vidicons when they were getting lots of light.

Attached is Figure 9-44 from Color Televison Standards N.T.S.C, Donald G. Fink, consulting Editor, McGraw-Hill, 1955. It shows the original scene color, the reproduced color (effects of film and telecine), and the reproduced color with masking. This early masking experiment introduced some errors of its own, but you can see that it generally acted to improve color saturation.

Bonanza was processed by Consolidated Film Industries in Los Angeles. Not by Technicolor. They have always been Eastmancolor. Around 1990, Republic Pictures, the owner at the time of Bonanza, had new master prints made from the original Eastman camera negatives, which had faded slightly. They looked vastly better than they had in the past. These were 35mm. The printing negatives were worn out over the years from use and title changes, etc.
Remember when Bonanza went into re-runs, and was retitled "Ponderosa?" I still have some film reels with the name Ponderosa printed on them in white lettering. Nice.

I ran Bonanza in syndication for a number of years on 16mm film prints. They were always a bit reddish, but usually looked very nice on the air.

Now, Bonanza is on digital product and is way-over sharpened up, to me. It almost looks gritty on screen.

As for old TV film cameras, NBC used RCA chains. They needed regular attention, which I'm sure they got when someone complained about the lag issues. I can recall several times when I could see camera registration errors on network films.

Our station used RCA TK-27, and TK-28 film cameras, and TP-66 projectors. These cameras were 'tweeked' weekly. They went out of service in the mid-90's when everything went to tape. I do miss film on TV. :thmbsp:

Back then, the film was run on a projector that was aimed into the film camera thru mirrors. There were usually at least 2 projectors, and a slide projector running through a multiplexer on each camera. Local TV stations got 16mm films until the early 1980's when the distributors started offering the shows on 2" tape, then 1" tape.

Our film cameras were 4-tube models. Red, Blue, and Green, with a monochrome tube for contrasts. They looked very good. I still have video tapes made on them.

Which versions of the film copies were used to make the 'cheap 2 set dvds"? I.e. when were these actually transferred to digital? I would think they should look pretty darn good if in 1990 they had new master prints made of the Eastman originals. Or did they maybe just transfer some crummier VHS versions they had made before 1990 to make the dvds?
I know one thing, don't watch that newer "The Ponderosa" sequel that was on a couple of years ago if you want to see vibrant "bonanza" type colors, that program was pretty drab and dull looking set-wise. Not a bad show, but then they weren't trying to sell color tv sets : )

I've got a Bonanza on a dollar disc. It appears to be a copy of one of the newer camera transfers.

As for Technicolor on TV, The show, "Walt Disney's Wonderful World Of Color" was shot on Technicolor, as were early episodes of Dragnet. Many TV commercials were also supplied to stations in Technicolor. I sure do miss real Technicolor.

Natalie Kalmus is smiling on you for that remark, Holmes !...<grin>-Sandy G.

Back in the '70's, I worked in a TV film department. Once in awhile, we'd get a Technicolor print of an old movie. I was allowed to check films out overnight, and run them at home to 'inspect' them. Got paid for doing it, too!

The Technicolor prints were beautiful most of the time. Once in awhile, we'd get a print that had registration problems.. like a TV with bad convergence. I'd report the film problem to the distributor, and they'd usually reply that they had used this same print for years and years and never had a complaint! Thats what I was paid for. They always sent us another print.

Universal Television had alot of Technicolor prints. So did Warner Bros.

Those prints started going away in the mid 1980's, with the advent of the new Eastman film stock that was called LPP... LPP is a low-fade stock. It seems to be working, as I have several films that were printed in 1983 that still have excellent color. They are LPP. The old film stock that Eastman made would be red by now.

I've heard some Natalie Kalmus stories.

Natalie's husband, Herbert T Kalmus, founded the Technicolor Company. :thmbsp:

True IB Technicolor prints do not fade either. Its a totally different way of getting color on film than the way Eastman did it. Vastly superior, IMHO. :naughty:

The two disc DVD edition of the 1938 Robin Hood has a documentary on Technicolor and they talk about Natalie Kalmus. It's interesting but the Doc looks like it was transferred from tape and the video quality on it sub par.

The restored Robin Hood however is an absolutely spectacular example of vintage three strip Technicolor!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...v=glance&s=dvd

I really recommend that documentary for anyone interested in the history of Technicolor -tells about the technology and also about the history of the company and the Kalmuses, who separated/divorced fairly early in the business but were quiet about it, while Natalie managed to insinuate herself into the visual design of nearly every Technicolor film.

Bonanza!
 

I agree!

When I get to see Bonanza on a 21" color I expect it will be just as great as it might have been if I'd seen it when it first aired.

That reminds me... Steve, I sent you a couple private messages about your set. Thanks, John

do any of those technicolor prints still exist, and if so why don't they release them on dvd

Technicolor prints
 

There is a telecine colorist on one of these threads discussing the transfer of films, old video tape, to new formats to sell or use for many other purposes. He would know for certain but I expect, based on other examples, that at least one excellent Technicolor print would be available for most every episode. I suspect much more of anything you could think of is likely to be somewhere.
I suspect there has been little attention given to give the consumer a quality product for many DVD's but I have heard many are remastered very well.
Has anyone seen transfers where they frame in too much and we loose stuff from the sides and top and bottom. I have and it frustrates me very much!
I do wish to see Bonanza as it would have been seen originally. Did it start in '67? Were all episodes color? I think they were.

Bonanza started its run on NBC in color September 1959. They aired from film. I don't think they would have produced it in Technicolor there was no reason to. I know in the 80's new video tape was made from them for the Family channel on a Rank flying spot telecine at AME Hollywood. They would look much better then the did when first aired.

They were 35mm Eastman prints. I got that from Republic Pictures, formerly National Telefilm Associates / NBC Films. We used to see both Bonanza, and Get Smart with the NBC peacocks on the beginnings of the prints. We cut them off, as we were not an NBC station, and threw the peacocks away!! Sure wish I had kept them. I do still have a couple of them on Eastman 16mm film that have faded a bit.

Technicolor could not make just one print of a title to be cost effective. There would be several trial/answer prints printed to be checked before a Technicolor run was done. The more prints made, the less Technicolor prints cost.
Many TV commercials were printed in IB Technicolor as late as the early 1970's, when Technicolor shut down its dye-transfer labs. I remember lots from General Foods, especially, from the mid -60's.

I worked in Television from the early 1970's-to 1990. I worked with people from all of the major TV film companies.

BONANZA! remastered on DVD
 

It's been a while since this thread began but I thought I'd jump in now to mention that CBS Paramount released season one (1959-60) of BONANZA on DVD in region 1 in 2009. The episodes all begin w/the original 1957 version of the NBC Peacock and end with the "This has been a color production of the NBC television network" snake logo.

The eps look magnificent -- newly transferred to digital Hi-Def from 35mm interpositive prints or negatives. You can read the hat size on the brim of Pernell Roberts' hat and see wrinkles in Dan Blocker's leather vest!

I highly, highly recommend this DVD set to all early color television enthusiasts (and BONANZA fans, who probably already have it).

Yes, "Bonanza" looked great on Sunday nights over NBC. As I recall they had a mix of TK-26 (vacuum-tube 3V) and TK-27 (solid state 4V) film chains up in telecine when I was at Burbank in 1970.

Film shows always looked awful if they were recorded and then played back with the original low-band tape machines (too much head banding and herringbone), so film was run directly to air for quite a while. After the high-band machines made their appearance, it was much harder to distinguish a tape copy from a film chain.

The western I would like to see again in color is "Tales of Wells Fargo," which only had its last season in color. I understand there are some DVDs available. Has anyone seen any of these? I would especially like to see if they retained those bright red bumper stills going in and out of the commercial breaks.

I have not seen the season one dvd set but was told they look amazing , however when they did the second season i was told they got cheap and just used the older transfers , not they look bad but the new ones will blow you away... btw i have some 16mm episodes of Bonanza and a couple are on the Eastman LPP color film that is a low fade or no fade color film , the color is outstanding , no reddish look , oh and here is a weird , i have the two part episode that was part of the lost episodes package and CBN refused to show it back when , the film doesn't have lost episodes on the titles , that was video inserted, title escapes me at the moment , it is about the mormons , anyway part 1 is eastman and reddish and getting more red as time goes by but part 2 is the LPP color and looks great , the flaw with that print of part 2 is there is a couple minutes edited out for more commercial time and it was never put back or placed at the end of the reel like some stations would do , so that was a take it as you can get it kind of thing, now if i could only get my hands on the second season Hawaii Five-O episode that was banned and not included in the dvd set , as long as it is watchable i wouldn't care the source , just as long as it doesn't have that multi copied look that gives one the feeling you put a fish bowl in front of the screen and you are viewing it through the bowl..... btw i wanted to add that i don't know what tv land does or how they do it but when they time compress ( speed up ) various shows it dulls up the image a little , takes away resolution , this was like this before it went digital and now being compressed digitaly on cabl it looks even worse.

mike

I seem to remember that in 1965, NBC's Rockefeller Center studios in New York (also the home of WNBC-TV/4) phased out their TK-26 chains - whose picture quality was without peer, for the time - in favor of TK-27's, which John Hafer in other posts spoke of the downgrade in picture quality upon the change (he specifically mentioned Flipper, but the change doubtless would have been noticed on Bonanza and other NBC shows that originated from film). I don't know if it was from Burbank or 30 Rock that filmed showings of Bonanza first aired, perhaps you can apprise me - or were two different prints struck, one for being run in New York, the other in Burbank?

But Burbank (and presumably KNBC/4) wasn't the only NBC outpost to have a combo of TK-26's and TK-27's as of 1970; so did their Chicago O&O, WMAQ-TV/5.

Speaking of Technicolor and Dragnet, In my collection I have a Mitchell BNCR movie camera. Any one familiar with Mitchells?? It is 35mm and they only made 364 of them in their 40+ year of production. At one time, almost 95% of all Hollywood movies were shot with a Mitchell. Martin Hill of NC has the largest movie camera collection perhaps in the world. He also has the Mitchell build orders and my camera, serial #244 was sold to Mark VII productions. Remember at the end of every Dragnet episode the arm and the hammer stamping "MARK VII"?? Mine still has the Universal Studios property stickers along with CBS and Republic stencils on the film magazines. Universal would lease out studio space when Mark 7 was through for the day.

All of the Lucy shows and most all TV sitcoms to include Bonanza and most westerns were shot with a Mitchell. Mine shot Dragnet, Adam12, Emergency, The Munsters and other CBS sticoms. Panavision took over when Mitchell went out of business and with the theory that if you don't sell and only rent, you will stay in business!

I Love Lucy was shot with a threesome of Mitchell BNC's. Dont know if Desilu bought them, leased them, or what. I've seen one 35mm Mitchell camera. They were built like a tank!

bonanza looked awesome on our philco roundie back in the day.my uncle had a ctc 7 and we watched it on that also.the scenery was breathtaking.i currently catch it on my ctc15.still looks impressive.that show was made for color crt television.it looks terrible on my sony lcd and my infocus projector.

Bonanza was made for the roundie. The titles and everything were ment to be seen on the round screen.

I watch it on my CTC-10C, too.

Network feeds
 

As I recall from working at Burbank, the NBC network was organized so that New York fed a "round-robin" coaxial loop that covered the Eastern and Central time-zones (long before satellites).

Burbank, in the case of film shows, would run a pair (main and protection) of its own prints for the Pacific network. There were many fewer stations in the Mountain time zone, so they were left to delay, I think, the New York feed on their own.

In one of my visits upstairs to telecine, I was shown that the protection prints were sometimes on 16mm film. I don't know whether this would have been true on a major show like Bonanza, however. The main prints were 35mm, of course.

In the case of shows pre-recorded on tape, four original tapes were usually made; two for New York and two for the West. Before high-band recording, the specific tape-machine head-wheel-panel that had recorded each tape was also sent to assure the best playback quality.

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