SABA Schauinsland T 2000 color
 

In another thread I wrote about the Saba Schauinsland T 2000 color, a color tv set of the first color tv generation in 1967. This set has 28 tubes and a horizontal unit which looks like a heating tower. The line transformer is bad. But I got a spare transformer from the electronic recycling depot which belonged to a Kuba color tv set. Today I have replaced the line output transformer and I got the first light on the screen.
The horizontal output unit has two transformers, one for the line deflection and the other one for generating the high voltage for the crt. Did you have color tv sets with two horizontal transformers in the past?

I think some of the Sony Trinitron sets used this setup...there was a horizontal output transistor for the yoke and a seperate HV horizontal output transistor for the flyback to generate the HV.

I remember at least one Philips set (K8) in Europe that had 2 transformers, 2 PL509 and 2 PY500.
None of the transformers would work if only one failed. A nightmare to fix.

This was a 110 ° deflection tv set with 400 watts power consumption. The earlier Philips sets (K6) had one transformer but two line output tubes, PL509 and PL504, both feeding the same transformer.
The two-transformer concept in color television was used by Saba, Grundig, Metz, Graetz, maybe some more.
In the Saba, the HV unit gets the input signal from the line output unit. If the line transformer does not work, the HV transformer does not work too. But otherwise the line output transformer could work while the HV transformer does not work. Power consumption of the Saba is 350 watts. And the high voltage output current for the PL509 is 600 to 900 ma. (285 volts).

I think some of the old CONRAC professional monitors had separate sweep and high voltage supply, but I no longer have a schematic.

Saba
 

Was this set a top level model in europe in '67? Were there solid state sets in europe in '67?
That SABA is interesting. Would the original picture quality have been competive with the best in '67?

The first color tv sets had similar prices. Here are all 63 cm.-TV sets in '67:

PHILIPS GOYA (K6): DM 2433,-

GRUNDIG T 1000: DM 2398,-
TELEFUNKEN Palcolor 708 T: DM 2398,-
WEGA 901: DM 2398,-

NORDMENDE Spectra-color 7000: DM 2385,-

LOEWE-OPTA F 900: DM 2383,-

SIEMENS Bildmeister FF91: DM 2380,-

SABA Schauinsland T 2000 color: DM 2378,-

SCHAUB-LORENZ: DM 2370,-
GRAETZ Burggraf: DM 2370,-

BLAUPUNKT CTV 2005: DM 2365,-

KUBA IMPERIAL: DM 2348,-

NECKERMANN Koerting: DM 1990,-

Beside them, there were also 49 cm.- color tv sets and the KUBA Porta-color (DM 1798,-) in 1967.
The PHILIPS set had 27 tubes too and had a very good video unit with an excellent picture. SABA used so many tubes because many tv servicemen were not familiar with transistors. (This was written in the service manual.)

Did Kuba ever make a color set to compliment the Komet? If I had a Komet, I would be VERY afraid that it would come alive late one night & try to murder me in my sleep...chase me around my house & then skewer me in a corner w/one of those splines...-Sandy G.

Sorry, but why should the Komet murder you? Do I have to be an American to understand it?
Kuba color tv sets are the worst color tv sets which where produced in Germany. They failed every four weeks, and one had to fix them.
Saba color tv set: the horizontal unit is working now, but not with full load. The booster voltage is still lower than recommended. Vertical linearity is and sync don't fit. The crt has very low emission. There is still a lot of to do.

Guess I've just seen too many sci-fi/horror flicks on late nite TV..Yeah, I guess you gotta be an American to "get" some of my oddball, snarky humor...But think about it..A Komet, w/an evil grin on it's screen, chasin' a guy around, every once in a while, jabbin him in the butt w/the long spike, the guy hollerin', "YEEE-OWWW",grabbin' his poor, sore butt, the Komet goin' "Heh-heh-heh !" as it runs after him again...They didn't have Hanna-Barbera cartoons on TV in Germany back when you were a kid, did they? Huckleberry-Hound, Quick-Draw McGraw, Snagglepuss, Yogi 'n' Boo-Boo,Augie Doggie & Doggie Daddy...If you'd ever seen many of those, you'd understand...I think...-<grin>-Sandy G.

It would help :naughty:

:lmao: ...sorry :) I think the idea was that the Kuba Komet looks like a 50's era sci-fi alien. :alien:

Ha ha ha! Thank you very much. Now I understood. BTW: My whole family had seen "The Invaders" this summer (with Roy Thinnes). Since that time we check every one who's ringing the bell at the house door for their size of the little finger... :yes:

Conrac used a stand alone HV power supply. I still have some in everyday service. They are Delta gun too. I'm going to make sure they don't hit the dumpster when they get replaced with HD monitors someday.

"The Invaders" Oh, chit ! Hadn't thought about THAT one in years ! Remember that creepy guy, Alfred Ryder-he played the "meanie" in a lot of TV shows back then...Hell, he'd be the guy that fixed the Komet where it would come alive & chase me...Shit, now I'll have nightmares....That damn Komet, comin' to get me <grin>....Yagosaga, have you ever seen any of the ORIGINAL (1963-65) "Outer Limits"? OK, they're kinda cheesy now,but back then, they'd scare the pants off a little kid. There was one episode the network blanked out the monster, because it was deemed to hideous for TV.-Sandy G.

I think the best TV ever made in the late 60's was the Philips KM1 multistandard model PAL/SECAM. Extremely complicated but with a wonderful picture quality.
I still have a few sets in working order. They came in 49cm(not sure) 63cm 65cm and/or 66 for the latest ones.
They were full of tubes and transistors.
Philips produced lots of color TV's with tubes when the others already made fully transitorised sets because Philips produced too many tubes in the 70's and needed to get rid of them.

Yes, Philips is wellknown for a good picture quality. Last night I worked on the Saba. The flyback and high voltage units are working well now. The missing sync depends on cold soldering points in the sync signal separation unit. Now I have to fix the vertical linearity. My son likes the heating tower of this set very much. At lunch he will make fried eggs on it.
To Sandy G.: I didn't saw "Outer Limits". Is it a movie or a TV show?

TV show.-Sandy G.

Awww, man, that's great ! Too bad they didn't have the "oscilloscope", too....Which were y'all's favorite episodes? I liked "Zanti Misfits" & "A Feasability Study"...And the MUSIC...NOBODY did that pot-boiling, OMIGAWD,SOMETHING'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN better than Dom Frontiere, IMHO.-Sandy G.

"The Galaxy Being" was the name of that episode, I think. One cheesy EFX in that one was, it's 1963, right? Well, they show a car turning over, & the car is a late '30s-early '40s model...Possible, but improbable-the people in the car were all dressed up, but in '40s clothes, & the car looked brand new, not some 20-25 yr old clunker.-Sandy G.

I'm not aware of many consumer grade US sets with 2 HV transformers from back then. We did have 2 horizontal output tubes though on some sets.

Typical HV box on a US color sets was: the output tube, which could be any one of a variety of types, the flyback transformer - RCA and Zenith were different in design here, the HV rectifier, inevitably a 3A3 if it was an RCA based set, the focus rectifier - this got you your 5000 or so for focus - 2AV2 was one of the more popular ones here, 1V2 too, and the famous 6BK4 shunt regulator. Oh yeah and a damper of some sort. HV for focus was basically the kickback to the horizontal output tube's plate, the HV was stepped up in the normal way. RCA had the 3A3's plate plug directly into the transformer starting around CTC-15 or so. Lift the HV box cover and the tube pulls out with it. I'm guessing this was a safey feature....

The HV went to the tube and to the plate of the 6BK4, which was a fairly tall octal tube with a plate cap. The 6BK4 would keep the load on the HV system constant at all times, which of course kept the HV constant. I don't think the focus ever had regulation or even if it needed it....

By the end of the tube era, Sylvania and a few others used triplers that got rid of the 6BK4 and 3A3 and 2AV2, and of course their well known X ray issues.

Cathode current on most old US roundies based on RCA designs should be kept as low as possible, I think 220MA is the magic number where they start melting.

There were a few regulators besides the 6BK4 - I think GE made them, but all are beam triodes save for that bizzare one in the 50's. I think they all were compactron or octal based. By the time small portables came around, the pulse regulator method and other methods came into use, though I seem to recall RCA using 6BK4s on some sets right to the end, I suspect because they were really good at it or they just had a lot of them...

Zenith dropped the 6BK4 around 67 or 68 they used pulse regulation.

A technical documentation (only in German for now but with a lot of photos) I have written yesterday. See:
http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...T2000color.htm
The remaining failures are fixed now. The set had a very bad crt with no emission on the red gun and very little emission on green and blue. With a crt regenerator the crt could be activated again. Now I have 0.85 ma on the blue gun, 0.9 ma on the green gun annd 0.85 ma on the red gun. What is your experience with the lifetime expectation of a regenerated crt?

Not really long, it can go from a couple of weeks to 1 year at the most. Old tubes tend to be more robust though.

Babel Fish stinks. ;-) When I have enough time I will provide an own translation, which is better than Babel Fish. If you want to help me you can read my translation when I have done it and you can tell me improvements and corrections. Would you do that?
BTW: I'm running a guitar course in the internet. It is only in German, but I know that many English speaking people use Babel Fish to translate it. They are so happy that Babel Fish exists.

I know i would love a translation of the site to English. I know americans, myself included, tend to not be too keen on learning a second language. I give great respect to anyone who can speak more then one language well, as you can. Id love to be able to read the page in correctly translated english instead of justlooking at the pretty pictures and feeling like the ignorant one language speaking guy i really am. :)

Great job, yagosaga. :banana:
In Romania there where manufcatured Romanians tv sets with a case like that, but they where b & w.
As soon as I can I'll try to put some pics with my Telcolor 3007.

The SABA color tv set web page is now available in English.
http://bs.cyty.com/menschen/e-etzold...00colorEng.htm
I have tried the translation and Bob Gary was so kind to see it though and do some corrections and improvements. Thanks a lot to Bob!
We had many wooden-case b/w tv sets in the 1960s too. Some of these sets are so similar with the colour tv sets that one can't see which is which. I love that wooden tv sets! BTW: in the next weeks there will be a heavy color roundie on ebay which was a test monitor for colour television attemps in the television set factury in Stassfurt, in East Germany in the midst-1960s.

To avoid misunderstanding: that's not mine. I was in contact with the tv engineer who will sell it.

Wow: an GDR made roundie!

No. It's anm U.S. made roundie. The G.D.R. had imported U.S. color roundies in the early 1960's for testing NTSC as an alternative to PAL and SECAM. This roundie remains from the European battle of colours.
It is the same reason why you have color roundies in Romania.

Oh, I got it.