Philco TV-123 chassis available (2)
 

A guy ion the AZ. area I am trying to get one of those remote-only colortrack sets from has TWO TV-123 chassis available he says.

I just KNOW someone here might find that interesting!!

Are they complete TVs or just chassis?

Can you find out the condition of the chasiss? Rust, missing parts, etc.

Dave A

Can you have him get the serial # and run # stenciled on the rear of the chassis'?

Dave: Can never have enough spares - right?

Chuck

Chuck,

You can never have enough spares. You never know when your complete and restored TV-123 will need parts.

See you at the February DVHRC meeting.

Dave A

Chuck, I see from the ETF data base the number of TV-123's has sky-rocketed up to six! Have you recorded a serial number above 356 yet?

Pete,

I have only 5 complete sets listed, have to check with Steve and see if he has info on the new one. 356 is still the highest serial number of all the complete and incomplete ones I have.

Chuck

6 confirmed: ETF, Chuck A., Pete D., Dave A., Pioneer Village in Nebraska, Collector in CA. (blonde cabinet). Reported, but not confirmed: Estate of Danny Gustafson

I told the guy you all wanted the ser. # and run #'s.
 

He said he would try and get them. He said the chassis are "mostly complete".

I don't have the numbers from Pioneer Village or the California one. I contacted Pioneer Village, but never got any response, I think Ed R. also tried.


Chuck

Ok. He got the numbers off of ONE chassis.

10307, Run 1.

He gave me permision to give out his ADDY::

See if this link works::

mailto:[email protected]

That's part of the number. The actual serial number is the next 3 digits, then 501 which is the run.


Chuck

As I recall, all Philco serial numbers of the era were two letters, followed by five numbers on a small silver sticker with a black border.

As a history trivia item; Philco provided an update kit for the TV123 chassis. It was a load of parts including a flyback, healthier horizontal output tube, improved high voltage rectifier arrangement and a sub chassis to use two 5U4s as low voltage rectifiers in place of the 5V3. The easy way to spot the mod is to look for the sub chassis. It had a cable that plugged into the power transformer socket and was mounted at the bottom of the cabinet. It also included other circuit improvements. The kit greatly improved reliability and will indicate the quality of service the TV got in its early life.

Don,

I guess these sets were the exception, the numbers are ink stamped on the chassis.

One of DaveA's chassis' I have has the power supply mod.

Chuck

Chuck:

I have never seeen a Philco production run consumer product with the serial number ink-stamped on the chassis. The early color TVs went through a series of reworks. Some of those were ink-stamped with dates and or engineering-notice numbers. I owned a production model until about 1964 when I sold it to an engineering manager in the computer group.

Radio and TV run numbers were typically 121, 122, 123, 124 etc. That tracks with the Philco engineering system. Unless those numbers actually state that they're serial numbers and follow the format, I suspect they are something else or the TVs are pre-production or pilot runs. Engineering models could not be mistaken for production products. Pilot runs were ink-stamped as such.

Only regular production TVs would have qualified for the free upgrade kit. To get one, the service shop had to provide a customer name, address and serial number and got paid to install it.

In any case, the TV123s sound like an interesting find and I look forward to following the progress. I hope we hear more.

Don

Don,

Thanks for the info on this rare set. Your Philco memory continues to amaze me. And check your memory for one Bert Soltoff. I got my TV123 set with the mods from him. He worked at Philco engineering in the mid-50's and left for RCA to work on the Apollo field-sequential color camera system. He even had a sample camera color wheel which he would not part with. It was about 6 inches across and as finely machined a piece as I have ever seen.

He was also the source for the Philco Apple color tube info that Chuck has posted. Credit where credit is due.

Dave A

Chassis Stampings...
 

Here's a picture of the TV-123 chassis rear apron; this area is just below the power transformer. There is a paper fuse-data sticker there on the left, but there are no other stickers or stampings back there that have survived that I can see.

Dave:

I did not know Bert Soltoff, but I appreciated reading his notes from the Apple project. They provided a great insight into the engineering process and color tube development. The Apple program was kept pretty tight. Projects often got internal names after fruits. Don't ask why. The small neck 12 inch (12WP4) CRT was called the Peach tube.

I don't recognize the "776" chassis marking as anything that came out of the factory. Philco was pretty consistent about finish quality on factory-built products. It looks more like a job ticket number or something a service shop wrote on it.

Is your TV-123, with the mods, , in working order? They were much more reliable after the mods, probably as good as an RCA 660. The Philco has a lot more parts. Is it mahogany or blonde?

Don

Don, the set is in line for rebuilding. I don't have it here, but as I remember, the mod chassis has some odd wire-wound controls on the back that my other chassis does not. Maybe part of the mod to beef them up or some work done later. The earlier non-mod chassis with no cabinet is in good shape. That came from a set that was beyond cabinet repair. I have the CRT also. Accuracy says do the mod chassis for the mahogany cabinet it came in.

Dave A

Dave:

I had one of the many engineering test stands that housed a 21AP22 with all the goodies. It was about 5 feet high and held a chassis so it could be serviced and modified. Regrettably, I tossed the electronics and cut the stand down for a table saw before moving west.

When you get a chance, take a look inside your mahogany cabinet for a 7 inch round hole cut in the bottom. I have more history on that one.

Don

Don,

Here are pictures of the rear chassis on my set, of the 6 I have seen it has the most data stamped or stuck to the chassis. This set is as close to new as you get want, it was acquired in 1956 (in California), when it stopped working in the 70's they just threw a blanket over it and left it sitting in the room, until I bought it.

I looked at the bottom of both cabinets and there are no holes, just the vent slots.

Chuck

Chuck:

The tag shows model 22D5102 and serial number D 07890 and run number 123.
The model number breaks down as 22 for 21 inch screen size, 51 for color TV, and 02 for cabinet color. The long blue stamped number usually refers to an internal drawing number and shop order.

Again, I don't recognize the red 339 as Philco markings.

Don

So Don,
Tell us the 7" hole story....!

Don,

Thanks for the clarification on the numbers. Now I need to see how many of the existing sets still have that little paper tag.

Chuck

John:

I bought a mahogany TV123 from the Phila distributor sometime around 57 or 58, at a bargain price. I performed the usual fixes and installed the mod kit. It worked well, but generated loads of in-cabinet heat. I mounted a 7" Kooltronic 117 VAC fan in the cabinet bottom and positioned it so the airstream flowed past the 5U4s and chassis vents. It did the job. It kept the 5U4s and horizontal output tubes cool enough to remove bare handed after hours of playing.

It was not too bad in a carpeted room, but when I moved it onto a bare wood floor, it was distracting. I removed the fan when I sold it to a Philco engineering manager. He sold it to another Philco engineer and I lost track after that. I often wonder if it survives.

Thanks for the rest of the story, Don. Now if a '123 shows up with such a hole, we will know where it came from.

...

The knobs are similar to the 1956 TV 390 black and white TV and the 1955 TV400. The bar-over-knob assembly is unique because it has more controls than a black and white TV. The small auxiliary control knobs are the same. There's just more of them.
The channel knob will work, but the numbers will be off by 90 degrees because the TV123 mounts on its side. Fine tuning will work OK.

Some 1954 split chassis knobs will work, but they will not be correct.

The chassis mounts on a board that slides into grooves in the cabinet. The board was little more than a plywood frame so most parts were exposed when the chassis was slid out. It was rarely necessary to remove the mounting board to replace parts on the bottom. It was held in place with about 8-12 hex head bolts with captive washers.

TV123 cabinets originally had recessed casters to enable moving it around for service. It is a massive piece of furniture. Exact dimensions will need to come from an owner.

Good luck.

Don

22D5102 cabinet dimensions in inches are:

33-9/16 wide
38-1/2 tall
24 deep

The chassis-mounting board Don mentioned is:

32-1/2 by 21-7/16 inches

Photo of board attached.

Pete

...

I suggest you post for some knobs. I just traded an NOS part for some "D" line knobs so I am sure there some out there. You may have better luck than buying a whole TV and the shipping will be much less. The "Bar-over-knob" assembly will be a lot to hope for. Pictures from a benevolent owner would be very helpful.

I do remember one or two blonde 123s. They used lighter colored knobs.

Sure: There are five sets of vent slots for a total of ten slots. The first set (of two slots) begins 1.5-inches down from the top of the cabinet. The top of the next set of vent slots begins one inch below the top of the first set, and so forth to the last set.

The vent slot opening is 1/2-inch and the real estate between vent slots is 1/2 inch. [see note 1] Vents themselves are 7.5 inches end-to-end.

Vents in a given set are separated (horizontally) by two inches.

Vents are located only on one side of the cabinet. The other side, however, has a port for accessing 21AXP22 convergence magnets. This port is a 16-inch wide by 6 13/16-inch deep rectangle located five-inches down from the top of the cabinet and flush with the front of the cabinet.

Finally, the odd-size speaker openings, which can't represent anything but some screwball marketing hype idea, are 2-3/4 by 7-3/4 vertical slots. Each speaker opening has a round 8-in. pm speaker behind it.

Note 1: If you want to be exact, the actual vent slot opening is 9/16 inch with 7/16 inch of real estate between.

Pete

Pete:

Philco called the screwball marketing hype:

"Phonorama Acoustic Lens System"


Chuck

...

This might be of interest?
 

Fabulous find Eric. I only hope "c1827" or the final winner is one of us AK'ers...

That education-unity has an historical value for us ALL:yes:

Pete,

Yes, it's "one of us"


Chuck

:tresbon: