Unbelievable find (at least for me). Need some help. - Videokarma.org TV - Video

BigZach1000 · #1 11-03-2010, 06:39 PM

Hi there,

I just joined this forum and I appreciate seeing other people that care about old TV's. I have loved old TV's since I read about Baird as a kid. I have wanted an older TV just for my own enjoyment and to look at but I have never had the luck of spotting one in my many stops at antique malls or they were too far away to pick up.

The other night I was driving down a side street and out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a cabinet with weird shaped porthole with some knobs sitting on someone's curb and I knew right away it was an old TV. I am hardly an expert, but it is a Motorola 12VK11R. It is in a mahogany case and has a speaker under the screen area. The screen is 12 inches and the main tube is round with the top and bottom "cut off". As far as I can tell, they made this model about 1949-1950. I have seen pictures of the 1950 and this one is different and looks older, so I am assuming that it is a 1949. It is in beautiful shape and only has a few scratches and a little bit of motor oil spilled on the top. The inside chassis and tubes look dusty but great. It is missing one knob insert piece for the channel knob on the front.

After the local TV repairman informed me that it would be OK to plug it in and see what happens. Low and behold, all of the tubes lit up and I got a picture. I am completely dumbfounded that this machine still works after 60 years with parts that have to be at least 40 or 50 years old. The only problem is that the image is not centered. It seems to be centered down and to the right. I have adjusted all of the adjustment knobs on the back and none of those seem to have an impact.

I will take some pictures if anyone is interested. Some questions: Does anyone know if there are many working examples of this model? Why is the picture like that and how can I fix it? Also, is it possible to get another knob piece to replace the one that is missing?

Thanks for reading my rambling,

Zach

ggregg · #2 11-03-2010, 06:57 PM

I had this sets bigger brother, the 17 inch version with am-fm and phono. It too worked but the picture was extremely hard to adjust and it had a bend in it like yours. It could be a number of things but most likely it is leaky capacitors and/or resistors. This is the main repair(s) needed on most old electronics. The capacitors are #1. It is not usually "just needs a tube". Tubes are suprisingly tough and although some could be bad, some or many of the caps most likely are. Tubes do not usually degrade from just sitting, unless they are somewhere unheated, but the other components do.

I completely recapped my set and it worked perfectly. I sold it to a friend who wanted it bad. He still has it and occasionally uses it and has only replaced a couple of tubes. We watched "psycho" on it a couple of years ago. It was pretty cool.

RitchieMars · #3 11-03-2010, 06:57 PM

Wow, that is a great find! Sounds like there's a lot of hope for it, although as anyone here will be quick to tell you, it'll probably be a good idea to consider replacing the electrolytic capacitors in that set so that it'll be safe and reliable to use. It's strange that some sets fail horribly overtime, and others still cling to life!

Your picture problem sounds like what would happen if the centering rings were out of adjustment, or at least whatever apparatus that particular set uses to adjust centering. My '53 Zenith has a pair of magnetic rings around the neck of the CRT that can be adjusted to center the picture, but it's the sort of thing you don't want to mess with unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing. It's an adjustment that involves sticking your hand in the back while the set is running... 'nuff said. Besides, you'll definitely want to assess the state of the television's circuitry. It's best that you replace at least the electrolytic capacitors and go from there. There's a lot more that can be wrong on the inside than you'll ever see on the outside, that's for sure.

Either way, you've come to the right place! I hope you can post some pictures of your set. I can tell you that if I found a set of that vintage as a freebie, it would definitely make my day!

ggregg · #4 11-03-2010, 07:01 PM

That's a good point that Richie made. There was an adjustment on mine. I believe it was a lever that stuck out on one side. Moving it around adjusted the picture but didn't solve the original problem.

7"estatdef · #5 11-03-2010, 09:01 PM

Hi and Welcome!
What would be helpful for us here on the forum is some pics of the set. A working screen shot, chaiss top and bottom,and where there are missing parts. (Can't take pics of the missing parts, there not there!) Great bunch of guys here that can help you sort out any of the problems you may run into with your set.
Terry

jeyurkon · #6 11-03-2010, 09:07 PM

That was a great find!

Photos please!

Your local tv repairman misinformed you though. You were quite lucky. At the very minimum it needed to be brought up to line voltage slowly to give the electrolytics a chance to reform.

Go to Phil Nelson's site to see what's involved in restorations.

John

BigZach1000 · #7 11-03-2010, 11:57 PM

Thank you so much for your kind welcome. I appreciate all of the information very much. I have taken some pictures of the front of the set. I will take some of the inner workings when I can get someone to help me to move it again. I am so worried to even touch it again now that I realize how close I was to breaking it by turning it on. I had severe doubts about even plugging it in, but the repairman scoffed at me like it was no big deal. Is it better for the television to get it back to viewing condition or should I just leave it alone?

RitchieMars · #8 11-04-2010, 01:29 AM

Wow, you weren't kidding about the condition! I can't believe anyone would throw that away! It's very presentable, with only a few small rough spots like the kind that you can fix up pretty easily with something like Howard's Restore-A-Finish like what I used on my mahogany cabinet. The grille cloth looks great, and you already said you got something of a picture so at least you know the CRT and flyback have survived.

Now as far as what to do about your Motorola, it's entirely up to you. I won't say that you necessarily need any experience with repairing electronics, because I know I certainly didn't when I bought my Zenith. I too had plugged up my set and ran it for awhile, wondering if maybe it just needed some adjustments but of course, it needed much more than that!

If you know how to use a soldering iron and a digital multimeter ( I mainly check resistors with it actually ) and a few basic hand tools, then replacing the capacitors in your set wouldn't be too bad. I won't lie; it can take awhile and requires some patience. You would probably be able to buy all of the capacitors you needed online for around $40 or less, and of course you'd need to find a schematic. I wanted a tube tester to test the tubes, and I've only recently acquired one, thanks to my mom!

But yeah, just take your time and study up on the basics and go the best route that suits your time and budget. I was a member here at VK for a long time before I ever touched the capacitors in my Zenith. Following along with some of the amazing restorations I've read about on here certainly provided me with a good general idea of what might be in store. In the end, whether you decide to tear into your set and restore it or not, at least you've saved one from the curb that could have easily been destroyed. That alone makes you a pretty cool guy, in my book!

bandersen · #9 11-04-2010, 12:46 AM

Welcome to VK

That's a very nice set and I believe I have a replacement knob for you. Is it red plastic ?

Last summer I picked up a similar Motorola 12K2 full of insert holes

I like to restore my sets to full working condition as do many others on this forum. Check out that link to Phil's site and peruse some of the restoration threads in this forum to get an idea of what's involved.

I have all the new parts to restore this set, but not the time. Maybe in the spring...

Sandy G · #10 11-04-2010, 05:05 AM

Wow !! Super !! OF COURSE, you'll want to restore it to SAFE operating condition...Nothing like having a 60-yr-old TV to show off to yr friends.

cwmoser · #11 11-04-2010, 06:02 AM

Yes, a very nice find. I would not hesitate to "adopt" a road-side find like that too.

Personally, I would not power it up anymore. You could damage some very hard to find components. Since it actually works, a very rare occurrence, a quick recap and check for out of tolerance resistors is likely all it needs to bring it to playing condition like it was 60 years ago.

Also, be forewarned that there are some very high voltages in that set - and the high voltages do linger long after you remove power. Become familiar how to discharge the high voltage so it will be safe for you poke around on the inside of your TV. You have a great find and you most likely will enjoy repairing/restoring the electronics and the cabinet of this set. I too used Howard's Mahogany Refinisher on the wood cabinet of my TV and it turned out great.

PS: Post a picture of the inside with the back off and someone here can show you how to discharge the high voltage on the picture tube so it will be safe for you. And NEVER NEVER work on the electronics without discharging that picture tube.

Carl

Phil Nelson · #12 11-04-2010, 11:55 AM

If you have zero experience fixing old tube electronics, consider getting a cheap (say, $5) old tube radio at a thrift store or garage sale and practicing on that. Replacing capacitors is not rocket science, but not everyone enjoys that kind of thing.

We all made beginner's mistakes once upon a time; better for you to make yours on a throwaway item. This also avoids the risk of frying some unobtanium part in your television.

If you succeed in that little project, you'll have more confidence working around the TV, with its higher voltages and greater complexity.

Just a thought . . .

Phil Nelson
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

***Eric H*** · #13 11-04-2010, 11:50 AM

That is truly an amazing thing to find in this day and age, most of it either hits the dump or lands on eBay.

Since it works it should be an easy resto to make it safe and reliable.

I was given a Motorola chassis minus the cabinet, it looks like it could be for that model.

BigZach1000 · #14 11-05-2010, 04:29 PM

I have posted some pictures of the interior and back of the TV if anyone is interested. Thank you all for your advice. It is very nice to find a message board where there are actually friendly and helpful people. My hat's off to you!

RitchieMars · #15 11-05-2010, 08:27 PM

That chassis looks to be in pretty good shape. It appears to be copper-plated which hopefully kept the rust away. There looks like a piece of electric tape on that red wire that you see there on the right. Someone may have "patched" a few rough wires in there at one time. Those silver cans you see on the left side ( one appears to be leaning? ) are multi-section electrolytic capacitors that usually contain 3 or 4 different values. These can be dismantled and rebuilt in such a way that they appear as original with no repositioning of the wires that go to them. You can also leave them in for looks and just mount the new capacitors somewhere under the chassis, but then it's a matter of repositioning the wires to their new locations in a way that still matches the schematic.

Just like Phil said, if you haven't worked on things like this before, a good start would be to recap an old tube radio. I took this advice myself I first took an interest in rebuilding my Zenith, and indeed it was a good starting point. The circuitry in old tube radios is very similar to what you find in televisions of similar vintage, but on a much smaller scale. Not to mention, there's not the high voltages to worry about. That said, I would imagine your Motorola has a fairly sensible layout under there that hopefully won't be too mind-boggling compared to some sets that were made many years after.