Westinghouse H-207 / H-196 High Voltage stuff missing

[Fmalham]

Hello everyone, I just recently acquired this TV/Radio/Phono console for free on fb marketplace, the cabinet is in nice shape and the picture tube tests good on my B&K 440. The problem I've found so far is the 1B3 and 6BG6 tubes along with the high voltage cage itself are missing. This is making me worried that this set may have possibly been taken out of service years ago for some Flyback/HV related problems. Any good ways to check for this before I go looking for parts? Does anyone have any of these parts laying around? What about some kind of solid state replacement?

[DavGoodlin]

These parts may not be as rare as you think, RCA supplied many of those parts to Westinghouse home products division in Sunbury, Pa. where that set and other Westys were built until the 1955 model year.

Several 1948-9 RCA's I have are missing the cages, and tubes get plucked out for other projects as interest fades. My younger self may have been ignorant of the many other causes of no HV, leaving covers off for extend periods, then losing them. Normal looking but bad parts like resistors and caps, all can cause the same symptoms. Yours might just need caps, its a close cousin to an RCA, with a 14" tube"

Measure DC resistance between 1B3 and 6BG6 plate caps, between 200-600 ohms.

and if you have access to a flyback tester, you can further determine if there are shorted turns. Resistance alone cannot detect shorted turns, which kill any oscillation.

If you have an audio generator check the ring pattern between 15-16 khz, using an oscilloscope. I have confirmed a few shorted turns in an otherwise undamaged/un-arc tracked fly in two CTC12 chassis'n comparison to an NOS Thordarson flyback, it is a dramatic ring decay pattern if good, next to nothing when bad.

Many thanks to guys like you for saving a Westy from FB land, where it may have been repurposed YIKES!

[Fmalham]

That's good to know that Westinghouse and RCA have a lot in common This is the first of their products that I've owned other than a telephone. I've only really messed with Philco, RCA and a Motorola set so far.

Thanks for the advice, that definitely sounds like what happened here as well. I just ordered an Eico 944 Flyback\Yoke tester off of eBay, hopefully that will help me diagnose this set so I know what I'm dealing with before I get into the recap.

I really need to acquire an audio generator sometime as well, any recommendations on a decent brand/model? I just recently got a Tektronix TDS 1002 60MHz Scope so I have that covered at least.

[DavGoodlin]

That is a great combination, using the scope to look at the ring pattern put out by the EICO ring tester. The Sams 65 folder shows a part number for the flyback and a Stancor replacement number. These flybacks do not go bad on the shelf, in case Moyers has one.

[nasadowsk]

Post chassis/model number while you're at it.

Isn't Moyers in Sunbury?

[Fmalham]

Sorry about that, I put the model number in the title but I don't know how that shows up when you search or reply. It's a Westinghouse H-207 which is the same thing as an H-196 but with a radio and phono in the other half of the cabinet.

I'll definitely try that Flyback tester with the scope, I'm sure it's a vastly more accurate test than the internal meter in the 944.

[DavGoodlin]

Originally Posted by nasadowsk

Post chassis/model number while you're at it.

Isn't Moyers in Sunbury?

Sure is, and also Pottsville. Sunbury is were this set was made too

The Wallace TelAid shows it as a model H-207 chassis V-2130-XX, the XX is needed, but all reference in Sams set 65 folder lists the variants of chassis above. Of course, most early sams schematics did not list DC ohms for coils and transformers.

[Electronic M]

If you do test the flyback be sure to disconnect loads from it... something as simple as leaving the HV rect tube connected and it's heater winding on the flyback being loaded by the tube can be enough to fool the tester/scope into giving you a flase bad reading on a good flyback.

[Fmalham]

Okay there actually appears to be more than one chassis number for some reason? I attached a picture with both because I'm not sure which one is the necessary one.

That's good to know, I've never used one of these Flyback testers before, seems like it should be pretty simple as long as I use it correctly. (it did come with the original manual so that should help) I'm gonna also assume the tester itself is probably gonna need a recap and calibrated before I can use it, so it might be a few days before I know whether or not my Flyback is bad

[Tim]

V-2130. 25DX is a run number and should be covered in Sams 65-17 or possibly 84-13. 65-17 is available on the ETF website: https://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/...sams-65-17.pdf

Rider TV3 is also available there: https://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/...96_rider_3.pdf

J000013 looks like the serial number of this chassis.

[nasadowsk]

I was under the impression early Westys were based on Philco designs?

But horizontal output in the Sams screams RCA.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the lack of cage and missing tubes. If the transformer tests good, it's good to go..

[Fmalham]

Things are looking good so far!

Finally pulled the chassis out of the cabinet and the flyback transformer tested good on two different testers and looks to be in good shape on a visual inspection.

I then removed the rectifier tubes and checked the power transformer, it also appears to be good with correct voltages on the secondary.

Time to start the recap and check all the resistor values!

[DavGoodlin]

Westinghouse made RCA's radios until 1930, part of some agreement IIRC. In 1923, Westinghouse scientist Vladimir K. Zworykin filed two patents critical in the development of television.
Westy plant in Sunbury PA.jpg
The TVs and radios from the "home products division" were just about as good as any other until the tv production was moved to Metuchen NJ, beginning of some very odd designs including the infamous "instant-on" feature.

I have one of the last Westinghouse-designed color sets from 1968. It is a very strange design, seemed as if it was not allowed to copy anything from even Emerson.

[Eric H]

Bad Flybacks in the late 40's sets is rare, if it looks okay it probably is.

The only bad one I had was a Zenith Porthole, and they were notorious for bad flybacks.
Nearly everything else used the RCA FLY1 or a variation of, which is very reliable.