Color differences-NBC NY vs NBC Burbank

[Steve D.]

Originally Posted by Dave A

Steve K,

I stand corrected...Steve D, save me.

Being in the production end of things and not so much in engineering I can only comment on my personal observations.
All I know is that the shows mentioned, Peter Pan (1960), Bell Telephone Hour and Dean Martin and all videotape productions at this time were products of 50's & 60's era videotape technology. And no matter how you slice it the tape looked like crap compared to most live and film color telecasts of the same era on all the networks. So many of the technical steps required to transmit a color video tape program from coast to coast as previously posted here by others, only helped to detract from already dubious recorded color quality. Add to the fact that these early color shows were edited by using a razor blade and finally after a couple of generations were loaded on a videotape machine. "Looks ok leaving here" was the standard answer from reasonably bored and complacent technicians at the various monitoring sites watching the banding and jump cut edits roll by. This at a time RCA was trying to convince the public that color TV was natural "living color. At KTLA, where I worked in the 60's & 70's they did go the extra mile in quality control. And hours were spent setting up and maintaining our TK-41's, video tape and film chain equipment. This may seem biased, but I certainly saw a difference in our color transmissions, even, up to a point, KTLA's color video tape broadcasts compared to the network color broadcasts. Slowly by the late 60's early 70's as technology improved and the networks and stations upgraded to the latest equipment the quality of all color transmissions by broadcasters was greatly improved. Even NBC Burbank finally and reluctantly gave up their TK-41's.

-Steve D.

[vallieone]

Thank you for all the responses.

I did forget to mention the "tans" on the Burbank shows. Especially on Dean and Dan Rowan very obvious to the casual viewer.

Not being and engineer or tech savy, one of the responders mentioned break upbars or banding on early video tapes. I was always curious about those slight horizontal bands that would come through on the video of those taped programs and now have a name for that effect. That was the only way I could tell at the time whether a program was live or on tape.

Just recently one of the local cable channels here on Long Island was re-running and old show of Bishop Fulton Sheen that was taped in the late 60's at WNEW in NY using the old Norelco Plumicons but the tape must have been a tape of a tape of a tape and you could see very clearly those horizontal bands just barely making it watchable. Would have loved to have seen a prisitine copy of the show the Plumbicons really could deliver a nice picture.

George

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Steve D.

. At KTLA, where I worked in the 60's & 70's they did go the extra mile in quality control. And hours were spent setting up and maintaining our TK-41's, video tape and film chain equipment. This may seem biased, but I certainly saw a difference in our color transmissions, even, up to a point, KTLA's color video tape broadcasts compared to the network color broadcasts.

-Steve D.

I agree about KTLA (channel 5 here in LA). I remember watching the Shebang dance show sitting in the May Co. Dept. Store in 1965 and the color (zooming up the girls short skirts) was the best looking of anything on at that time...

[Steve D.]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoffman

I agree about KTLA (channel 5 here in LA). I remember watching the Shebang dance show sitting in the May Co. Dept. Store in 1965 and the color (zooming up the girls short skirts) was the best looking of anything on at that time...

Hey Steve H,

SHEBANG, with host, Casey Kasem, was one of the first shows I worked on at KTLA in 1965. We did videotape it for limited syndication, but it was a live show every late afternoon following our early live newscast on the same stage. Just turned the TK-41's 180°, to the Shebang set, during the 2 minute station break. This was one of the last back to back live TV we did. The crew did enjoy watching the mini skirted, under age, teeny-boppers. The Jackson 5, The Monkees, Sonny & Cher among many others were featured on the show. KTLA had been using both b&w then color video-tape as soon as the technology was available. Even so, they still produced 2 one hour variety shows, live in color, each weekend until 1966. One included live commercials. They both went to videotape shortly thereafter.

-Steve D.

[Jeffhs]

I've lived in northeastern Ohio all my life, and have never noticed differences in color between NBC's New York or Burbank studios when watching programs on that network. (Maybe there was better color processing at stations here in the Great Lakes region than at the stations on the coasts? ) That may have been because we didn't have color TV when I was a kid growing up in the '60s-'70s. The first color set I ever owned was a beat-up 1964 Sears Silvertone roundie with terrible convergence; I never could get it right, so never had much of a chance to notice color differences between different NBC studios or even between ABC or CBS. (Several years later, I had newer color portables--two Zeniths and a Sentry 2, and my present living-room set, an RCA XL-100 CTC185; I can't notice any difference in colors between any of the half-dozen or so networks now in operation on the RCA or the Sentry 2, and I never was looking for it on the other sets.)

Today, there is little if any difference in color on any network because of vastly improved technology, which is why today's color TVs don't have color correction schemes anymore like Zenith's old Color Sentry, GE's VIR, Magnavox's Videomatic, RCA's AccuColor and ColorTrak, et al. There is no need for color correction at the set anymore; it's all done automatically before the signal goes out on the air, so the colors should be as stable as the Rock of Gibraltar on every network. I know they are close to that on my set. I don't think I've had to adjust the color controls to any great extent since I purchased that TV nine years ago. I even shut off the auto-color control, as it isn't needed in the digital age.

[KentTeffeteller]

Those old TK-41 cameras were very high maintenance when new, worse after they were second and third hand. Many were used in small markets up to the late 1970's. I learned to maintain and align one in the early to middle 1980's when it was used in High School Cable TV duty along with good old tube era Quadruplex 2" VTR recorders. Ampexes to boot. Loved the experience. They made good pictures when all was right. Took a lot of work to make them really perform but enjoyed every minute. Modern TV operators are spoiled.

[Aussie Bloke]

Originally Posted by KentTeffeteller

Those old TK-41 cameras were very high maintenance when new, worse after they were second and third hand. Many were used in small markets up to the late 1970's. I learned to maintain and align one in the early to middle 1980's when it was used in High School Cable TV duty along with good old tube era Quadruplex 2" VTR recorders. Ampexes to boot. Loved the experience. They made good pictures when all was right. Took a lot of work to make them really perform but enjoyed every minute. Modern TV operators are spoiled.

Wow, it's amazing to know those silver beasts were still operational even in the 80s! Just curious, what did your high school ended up doing with those TK-41s? If they haven't sent them to the knackers yard already, then it might be worth chasing up these TK-41 camera chains, if they're still around and kept in decent storage then they probably won't need much to get them going again.