Do "roundie" color sets make a better picture than later sets?

[DaveWM]

Originally Posted by zeno

To fix the shading you just need to replace the filter cap on the
200 V line. Usually a 4.7mfd use a 450 V. One of the most
common problems on ANY color TV.

73 Zeno

Zeno is that the video out screen decoupler? I see a 2uf on the 160v line that feeds the video out screen (ctc-12)

[oldtvman]

Plasma's have the closest picture characteristics as the crt, deep blacks no angle degradation truer color reproduction and no pixilating like the lcd's/leds.

I think that the picture can be more pleasing because the video levels aren't driven so hard as to diminish the color quality. I guess today's viewer's would disagree, but then most of them don't understand what an acceptable picture should look like

[wa2ise]

One thing with modern flat screens is that they use excessive "coring" (a form of noise reduction, where small variations are suppressed, but allowing large amplitude variations go thru. Makes people's faces look cartoonish. And most of these sets don't let you turn this coring off. So this is a reason why I've used CRT VGA computer monitors for HDTV display (assumes the ATSC tuner has an analog VGA (RGB) output) I've set to 1080i. And a reason why old TV sets may look better than the modern flat screens.

[compucat]

Originally Posted by wa2ise

One thing with modern flat screens is that they use excessive "coring" (a form of noise reduction, where small variations are suppressed, but allowing large amplitude variations go thru. Makes people's faces look cartoonish. And most of these sets don't let you turn this coring off. So this is a reason why I've used CRT VGA computer monitors for HDTV display (assumes the ATSC tuner has an analog VGA (RGB) output) I've set to 1080i. And a reason why old TV sets may look better than the modern flat screens.

So that is why low end flat screens always look cartoonish. Even our Panasonic plasma has a shimmering cast on some scenes similar to a CRT with low emission. Plasma is the closest to CRT but is not perfect.

[andy]

...

[etype2]

I grew up in the late 40's and 50's. I saw early color in stores and relatives homes in the mid 50's. We did not have a color set until I started working and at 18, purchased our first color set, a 1966 RCA CTC 19 Danish modern consolette. It was a rectangular set. In the 50's we would go the movie theater and watch beautiful Technicolor movies in a rectangular format.

IMHO a roundie was a technology compromise utill rectangular color tubes could be made. If we are used to watching movies in the theater in the rectangular format, we should be watching color movies in the home on a rectangular TV. I did not like the fact that the images were cut off at the corners on a roundie.

In the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's, beautiful filmed Technicolor shows were broadcast such as Bonaza and Columbo. There is just something about the warmth and depth of a Technicolor movie that is lacking in today's programs. Most of us remember seeing those shows on roundies. That is why we have a fondness, it's the nostalgia. We remember our first experiences with color television and it was usually on a roundie and it was great!

Unlike the past, most kids grow up with color TV from the time they first turn a set on. It has become mainstream, not a big deal. If you grew up before color TV was invented and lived for 9, 10-18 years with black and white, it was a big deal to have your first color set.

I do not agree that a properly adjusted color roundie looks better than a properly adjusted flat screen. I did an experiment. You may remember Ed Reitan's screenshot of Dorthty from the Wizard of Oz. It was taken off a CBS field sequential color set which at the time was considered to have better color than RCA. Last year, Turner Classic channel rebroadcasted that movie and I took a screenshot of the exact same frame as Ed's photo from my 70 inch calibrated flat screen. There is no comparison. If you compare image to image from a more modern properly adjusted 1964 RCA CTC15 roundie to my 70 inch calibrated flat screen, there is no comparison.

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by etype2

Most of us remember seeing those shows on roundies. That is why we have a fondness, it's the nostalgia. We remember our first experiences with color television and it was usually on a roundie and it was great!

I am guessing that the writer is referring to this topic in relation to his specific age group. With that I would agree, but I'm not positive that's what he means. It actually backs up one of the possibilities I mentioned in starting this thread of why the specific "roundie" color set has such a big fan base. The age group that saw all of this come along could easily want a piece of a fond old memory around. Inversely, I mentioned I think in a second post that most of my sets are older than I am. So, being a kid in the 70s, my memories of these sets were just that they were just another set. Or later junk... yep.

By the time I took my high school electronics training in the early 80s. our donation area in the classroom was well populated with them. However, even then I remember specifically wanting to work on those just because they seemed more interesting than the other almost as old rectangulars which I had no interest in. I still think there is more to this than nostalgia really. I mean how many people want their first touch tone phone or cell phone back? Or their first computer for that matter. I think a lot of us have some training in electronics and simply enjoy the challenge of getting an old TV or radio going again and preserving it for whatever reason. That would sort of explain me, but I have never been able to explain even to myself the love of TV and radio in some cases much older than I am. It just comes naturally.....

[etype2]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

I am guessing that the writer is referring to this topic in relation to his specific age group. With that I would agree, but I'm not positive that's what he means. It actually backs up one of the possibilities I mentioned in starting this thread of why the specific "roundie" color set has such a big fan base. The age group that saw all of this come along could easily want a piece of a fond old memory around. :

You are right, it's about the age group before color TV was invented. Let me respond. Yes that is exactly what I mean, it's nostalgia for me. As I tried to explain, at the time I was a bit younger than the core group of guys who were able to buy their first color sets in 1954, 1955, 1956 etc. I was not able to buy my first color set until almost 19. That means it was 1966 when I purchased my first color set. At the time, I thought roundies were old fashioned. Who would want one when the new rectangular tubes were just coming out and the roundies cut off the corners of the image! To a buyer like me at that time, roundies were being phased out.

Two years ago, I was able to find the exact same color set as the one I purchased in 1966. Even the same cabinet. I had long ago disposed of it as junk, but now at my age, I searched until I found the same exact set. It was not that I thought it was superior, just the nostalgia of possessing the first color set you owned. After that, I really wanted to find an RCA CTC 5 to go back as far possible to the very first sets. On the way to that search, I found a beautiful 1964 RCA CTC 15 roundie.

To put it another way, for me, it's similar to wanting to find a 1963 Pontiac GTO, the very first muscle car and I was just old enough to drive and wanted one badly. That car is not a better car then today's car, but it's all about the nostalgia.

From reading these forums over the years, I think most here, get enjoyment from the challange of repairing these old sets. I'm not good at repair, so always try to find good working examples. Been lucky so far, takes patience. Love the nostalgia.

As to the micro televisions I collect, that's another story. :-)

[compucat]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

I am guessing that the writer is referring to this topic in relation to his specific age group. With that I would agree, but I'm not positive that's what he means. It actually backs up one of the possibilities I mentioned in starting this thread of why the specific "roundie" color set has such a big fan base. The age group that saw all of this come along could easily want a piece of a fond old memory around. Inversely, I mentioned I think in a second post that most of my sets are older than I am. So, being a kid in the 70s, my memories of these sets were just that they were just another set. Or later junk... yep.

By the time I took my high school electronics training in the early 80s. our donation area in the classroom was well populated with them. However, even then I remember specifically wanting to work on those just because they seemed more interesting than the other almost as old rectangulars which I had no interest in. I still think there is more to this than nostalgia really. I mean how many people want their first touch tone phone or cell phone back? Or their first computer for that matter. I think a lot of us have some training in electronics and simply enjoy the challenge of getting an old TV or radio going again and preserving it for whatever reason. That would sort of explain me, but I have never been able to explain even to myself the love of TV and radio in some cases much older than I am. It just comes naturally.....

I feel the exact same way. I always gravitated toward the vintage stuff especially tube electronics as it always seemed more interesting. Another thing is that vintage tv and radio do not become functionally obsolete unlike early computers and cellphones. My first cellphone was a Motorola brick in 1993 and it was analog so if I had it today It could never be used as the networks are all digital now. My first computer I bought new was a Packard Bell 486 SX20 with 2mb of ram. Today I bet it would not even load this forum page but my 1965 Zentih Roundie and my 1949 Motorola 9VT1 can still receive the current programming, even Netflix with the digital converter and Roku boxes to which they are connected. Not to mention my 1937 Philco 610 radio can still pick up Coast To Coast AM every night.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by etype2

IMHO a roundie was a technology compromise utill rectangular color tubes could be made. If we are used to watching movies in the theater in the rectangular format, we should be watching color movies in the home on a rectangular TV. I did not like the fact that the images were cut off at the corners on a roundie.

Unlike the past, most kids grow up with color TV from the time they first turn a set on. It has become mainstream, not a big deal. If you grew up before color TV was invented and lived for 9, 10-18 years with black and white, it was a big deal to have your first color set.

I'm guessing that rectangular delta-gun sets were a technology compromise as well considering that the gun setup doesn't fully cooperate with the screen geometry. The smaller tubes must have been easier to design inline-gun systems for; I noticed that many 19" screen table sets got inline tubes before larger-screen consoles.

We always had a color set when I was growing up, but I didn't have access to it most of the time (now the Electrohome is totally mine, haha). I had a small B&W set which I hated, so it was still a big deal to me to get my first color set. I wouldn't want that particular model back though, they were becoming BPC by the time that was made.

[dtvmcdonald]

Originally Posted by etype2

I do not agree that a properly adjusted color roundie looks better than a properly adjusted flat screen. I did an experiment. You may remember Ed Reitan's screenshot of Dorthty from the Wizard of Oz. ... If you compare image to image from a more modern properly adjusted 1964 RCA CTC15 roundie to my 70 inch calibrated flat screen, there is no comparison.

I've done this comparison between Oz from a DVD through a first class
B-T agile modulator into both a 55 inch LCD and my CT-100.

There is a comparison. The colors are exceedingly close. The LCD
has, in its normal settings, excessive contrast for film, while
the CT-100 is correct. This can be adjusted out on the LCD set.
The resolution is not exactly the same. The overall resolution is similar,
but the LCD has "sharpening" halos on it, the
CT-100 none, and the LCD has a tad more real
resolution. But very close.

[etype2]

Originally Posted by dtvmcdonald

I've done this comparison between Oz from a DVD through a first class
B-T agile modulator into both a 55 inch LCD and my CT-100.

There is a comparison. The colors are exceedingly close. The LCD
has, in its normal settings, excessive contrast for film, while
the CT-100 is correct. This can be adjusted out on the LCD set.
The resolution is not exactly the same. The overall resolution is similar,
but the LCD has "sharpening" halos on it, the
CT-100 none, and the LCD has a tad more real
resolution. But very close.

I would love to see screenshots of your comparison test. I think I remember the thread. I could go back and look. I have read in these forums that the CT-100 was possibly the only set that had color phospers that accurately met strict colors standards of that era and up to this day. That means the RCA CT-100 would be considered a high end set of its era and most certainly a better challenge then the field sequential set or the CTC-15. Can the LCD used in your test be considered high end? We're both sets calibrated to the current standard? Today's LCD sets are capable of reproducing a wider spectrum of colors then the current standard. Coming soon, the 4K BluRay group is currently working out the final standards for the new 4K format. LCD manufactures are working to achieve most if not all of the advanced image and color standards of this new format.

My test was comparing Ed Reitan's screenshot to the identical frame captured off my high end Sharp 70 inch calibrated LCD. My LCD model is now three years old. I could post unretouched photos to show what I mean when I say there is no comparison. I can do the same comparison test using a recently adjusted RCA CTC-15 with the LCD. The delta dot structure is much more noticeable on the CTC-15 than the Quatron pixel structure which has 25% more pixels than a standard LCD. It is not as bright. My CTC-15 was adjusted by a retired RCA color technician, but not professionally calibrated. Still the colors do look very accurate.

When the two screenshots of an identical frame are captured from the RCA CTC-15 and the LCD, there is just no comparison in terms of brightness and resolution. The controls for this test are that both sets are in almost total darkness, only the screen light is imaged and captured and the camera is set on auto exposure.

[sampson159]

ok,heres my take on the question.i saw the picture on the first color sets.the 15 inch models and i was amazed.the 19 and 21 inch sets were bigger but the picture wasnt better.still.to a youngster,amazing.nothing exciting for a few years and then the coming of the zenith color sets.never had i seen a picture so bright,clear,sharp and colorful.truly,the finest picture on a roundie.rca later released the ctc15 which was very close to the zeniths in quality.the rectangulars came out and though the picture was good,just didnt stand up to the aforementioned sets.the next huge improvement was the zenith chromacolor sets.whether hybrid or solid state,those sets are still acclaimed as the best ever.the coming of the great sylvanias,hybrid and solid state with the famous 25vdmp22 crt was the very last hurrah for the delta gun sets.all in all,the zenith roundie in my opinion was the most beautiful picture i had ever saw on a crt set.maybe it was the era or maybe it was just my youth but that set was exciting.

[rca2000]

It was NOT just you....I still have fond memories of my 25MC33, seeing shows like "the spy who loved me" 2001", Dark star", Caddyshack", Airport 79" Coma", "You only live twice"...along with a LOT of mission impossible episodes and such. ... and MANY others--for about a year--on that wonderful set. It was OTA only, and only a few channels. BUT what we had ...just looked SOOO good !!

Zenith claimed they "had something different and special" in their roundie set--from the 29JC20 on...IMHO....they DEFINITELY did !!

[tvcollector]

I wasn't around when roundie CRTs were being made, I really wasn't even around when vacuum tube sets were being produced, everything was pretty much solid state when I was born in Feb of 1978.. My mother had a cheap B/W tube set when I was a baby, it's in a picture somewhere I believe.. But she said I use to go in the back of the set and mess with the knobs.. I may have even broke the set LOL.. But there is something about roundie and old sets I really like.. I like them from the beginning to the early 80s, when they started to become digital, I didn't care for them... I do like some of the early digital Zeniths with the digital tuners and green display readout, which I have one of those sets.. But I remember always wanting a color roundie as far back to the late 1990s when I got my first B/W roundie I believe from that guy that owns this site: http://www.vintagetvsets.com/ pretty sure it was this site or maybe someone related to it, I remember viewing that site in 1998, or 99.. It really looks no different.. But it was a guy out of Long Island New York.. I never recall ever seeing a color roundie working as a kid, and all TVs I saw in the junk back in the 80s were early rectangular sets.. Web surfing in the late 1990s and seeing actual pictures of color roundies actually made me want one, and it was only up until about 3 years ago until I saw one operating in person...