Stop appliance genocide

[truetone36]

Braun made a very nice coffee grinder in the late 60's-early 70's. If you see one somewhere, don't pass it up. I have the one my grandma bought new about 40 years ago and it's never let me down yet.

[CoogarXR]

My wife's sister had this weird combo. It's a Modern Maid oven on top, cooktop, and a dishwasher below! It sat in her vacant house for years, and now she's selling the house.

My wife really wanted this combo unit, but didn't want to give up her new gas oven. Our kitchen is currently large, and inefficiently laid out, so there is a lot of unused space. So we decided to get the combo and have both. She'll have the gas stove, and this electric unit too. This will be nice when she has her family over, and they all want to cook a large meal.

Our current (new) dishwasher had a thermostat fail and will only wash dishes with the heat features turned off. So, the dishwasher will handily replace our newer junker. The dishwasher portion is a Kenmore, and I don't think it's original. The opening is standard size, so any dishwasher will fit in there. It was probably replaced at some point.

It's pretty neat. I'll take some real pics once I install it. Right now it's in pieces, as I had to take it apart to move it. I have the bottom half installed, and the dishwasher works great. I just got the 220v run finished today. Once I get somebody to help me lift the oven top, I can finish the install.

It even still has the reversible color panels on the doors. I has 5 options; black, white, coppertone, avocado, and of course, harvest gold. I am using the black, heh.

Here's an ad from 1972 to give you an idea of what it looks like:

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by CoogarXR

My wife's sister had this weird combo. It's a Modern Maid oven on top, cooktop, and a dishwasher below! It sat in her vacant house for years, and now she's selling the house.

My wife really wanted this combo unit, but didn't want to give up her new gas oven. Our kitchen is currently large, and inefficiently laid out, so there is a lot of unused space. So we decided to get the combo and have both. She'll have the gas stove, and this electric unit too. This will be nice when she has her family over, and they all want to cook a large meal.

Our current (new) dishwasher had a thermostat fail and will only wash dishes with the heat features turned off. So, the dishwasher will handily replace our newer junker. The dishwasher portion is a Kenmore, and I don't think it's original. The opening is standard size, so any dishwasher will fit in there. It was probably replaced at some point.

It's pretty neat. I'll take some real pics once I install it. Right now it's in pieces, as I had to take it apart to move it. I have the bottom half installed, and the dishwasher works great. I just got the 220v run finished today. Once I get somebody to help me lift the oven top, I can finish the install.

It even still has the reversible color panels on the doors. I has 5 options; black, white, coppertone, avocado, and of course, harvest gold. I am using the black, heh.

Here's an ad from 1972 to give you an idea of what it looks like:

That baby must've cost an arm and a leg, at that time.
BTW, do you live in Wisconsin?

[CoogarXR]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

That baby must've cost an arm and a leg, at that time.
BTW, do you live in Wisconsin?

Nope, Ohio (although we did briefly borrow some of Wisconsin's weather).

I have seen a few ads for this combo, it's always around $750-$850. I am not sure how that applies to today's dollars, or if that was considered expensive back in the early 70s.

[Dangler]

http://wyoming.craigslist.org/atq/4262505803.html

This has been listed several times with no takers, probably because of the price. Anyway, I thought it was kind of interesting.

[Countryford]

CoogarXR: That looks pretty cool. Would like to see pics of it once you get it installed.

[truetone36]

I used to have one of those fridge/stove/sink combos. Mine was avocado green with a stainless steel top.

[Jeffhs]

I noticed in the ad for this kitchen combo that the stove has "permacoil" lifetime burners. I don't agree with that. Electric stove burners (and, of course, the oven's heating elements) do eventually burn out in time, depending on how much they are used. Either the ad for this Modern Maid combo unit was overhyped, or else the cooktop elements must have been made of incredibly thick wire that is guaranteed not to burn out for 50 years from the date the appliance is purchased.

I've never seen or heard of any electric stove with heating elements guaranteed to last a lifetime. The only way I can see the cooktop on this thing lasting more than, say, 20 years and still have its original elements when it was finally junked would be if the stove was not used much, "much" meaning only once every few weeks or so. Most stoves in homes with large families, of course, are used much more than that, so the Modern Maid combo's claim that the original burners will last a lifetime is probably, even likely, nothing more than advertising hooey. Some stoves have been kept going for years or decades by replacement of burned-out burners and/or oven elements (even though a 50-year-old stove in, say, avocado would look horribly out of date in a 21st-century kitchen, especially if a modern microwave oven is installed over or near the range), but to expect the original burners and/or baking elements to last anywhere near 50 years...well...

However, as others have mentioned, it is possible to keep these units going for years or decades by replacing old, worn-out components as necessary (as some VK members have done with old combo TV-radio-stereo units after the television develops expensive repair problems). As was mentioned, the dishwasher opening in the MM combo is a standard size, so almost any modern kitchen-size dishwasher will fit in it; as for the stove, as I said, the burners can be replaced when they eventually burn out, so it is conceivable that some of these old appliances will live on for a very long time, even after they are supposed to have been junked. The only drawback is that the styling will be out of date in modern kitchens, as I mentioned.

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I noticed in the ad for this kitchen combo that the stove has "permacoil" lifetime burners. I don't agree with that. Electric stove burners (and, of course, the oven's heating elements) do eventually burn out in time, depending on how much they are used. Either the ad for this Modern Maid combo unit was overhyped, or else the cooktop elements must have been made of incredibly thick wire that is guaranteed not to burn out for 50 years from the date the appliance is purchased.

I've never seen or heard of any electric stove with heating elements guaranteed to last a lifetime. The only way I can see the cooktop on this thing lasting more than, say, 20 years and still have its original elements when it was finally junked would be if the stove was not used much, "much" meaning only once every few weeks or so. Most stoves in homes with large families, of course, are used much more than that, so the Modern Maid combo's claim that the original burners will last a lifetime is probably, even likely, nothing more than advertising hooey. Some stoves have been kept going for years or decades by replacement of burned-out burners and/or oven elements (even though a 50-year-old stove in, say, avocado would look horribly out of date in a 21st-century kitchen, especially if a modern microwave oven is installed over or near the range), but to expect the original burners and/or baking elements to last anywhere near 50 years...well...

However, as others have mentioned, it is possible to keep these units going for years or decades by replacing old, worn-out components as necessary (as some VK members have done with old combo TV-radio-stereo units after the television develops expensive repair problems). As was mentioned, the dishwasher opening in the MM combo is a standard size, so almost any modern kitchen-size dishwasher will fit in it; as for the stove, as I said, the burners can be replaced when they eventually burn out, so it is conceivable that some of these old appliances will live on for a very long time, even after they are supposed to have been junked. The only drawback is that the styling will be out of date in modern kitchens, as I mentioned.

Why can't a heating element last 50 years or more? There are plenty of stoves and other appliaces out there that still have original elements that still work. Most stove elements are a coil of nicrome or resistance wire incased in ceramic and inside a metal tube. Sounds an awful lot like a resistor. There's plenty of old tv's and radios that still have their original resistors.

So long as the nicrome stays incased in the ceramic and not exposed to air where it can oxidize away, it should last a long, long tmie.

And, legally a lifetime warranty only means the average lifetime of the appliance, not the owner. So, probably not more than 20 years was it's reasonable expected lifetime.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by egrand

Why can't a heating element last 50 years or more? There are plenty of stoves and other appliaces out there that still have original elements that still work. Most stove elements are a coil of nicrome or resistance wire incased in ceramic and inside a metal tube. Sounds an awful lot like a resistor. There's plenty of old tv's and radios that still have their original resistors.

So long as the nicrome stays incased in the ceramic and not exposed to air where it can oxidize away, it should last a long, long tmie.

And, legally a lifetime warranty only means the average lifetime of the appliance, not the owner. So, probably not more than 20 years was it's reasonable expected lifetime.

You are quite right as to the longevity of burner coils and oven elements in electric stoves. I said in another post (and put my foot in my mouth in the process) I thought the wiring to the thermostat and heating elements in electric roasters (the large white ones often found in church kitchens in the 1950s-'60s) would crumble after fifty years; turns out these roasters have asbestos-insulated wiring (as the person who responded to my post informed me), and yes, the elements should last a very long period of time before burning out. It is probably more likely that the mechanical timer clocks in 50-60+ year-old stoves wore out first, with the burners still in as good shape as they were when the range was new. Many of these ranges are still in use today, the timer clock having stopped or jammed years or decades ago; but the stove's owner probably doesn't care, as long as the stove itself still works.

You also make a valid point regarding the definition of "lifetime" as applied to electric range burners. I did not realize that the term in this context referred to the average life of the appliance; in any event, you are correct. However, since burner coils (and oven baking elements) are made of nichrome wire and are encased in a rather thick spiral enclosure, they should, in theory anyway, outlive the owner of the appliance by many years. As I stated in the last paragraph, it is more likely that the timer clock and/or the temperature selector switches, or the oven thermostat, will fail long before the burners.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by egrand

And, legally a lifetime warranty only means the average lifetime of the appliance, not the owner.

So, by today's standards, that's what, six months?

[CoogarXR]

Originally Posted by KV-1926R

So, by today's standards, that's what, six months?

That's kind of a self-fulfilling warranty. It's a lifetime warranty. If the item only lasts one day, well, I guess that was it's lifetime. No refund for you!

[CoogarXR]

It does still have the original burners with the "lifetime" logo in the middle, and they all still work. I don't know how much it's been used over the years, but it's still in good shape.

I still haven't finished the install yet, or I'd put up some pics.

Jeff, I think it's a good point that a lot of times the associated wiring goes bad first.

I grew up with my mom cooking everyday on a circa 1950 GE Stratoliner pushbutton stove until well into the 1980's. IIRC a mouse chewed into the wires in the back and they burned out and dad said let's just get a new one since it didn't match their other appliances.

[electronjohn]

When my Mom & Dad were married back in 1949 they took some of their wedding $$$ & bought themselves a refrigerator. That International Harvester sat in the kitchen for years...then went to the basement after being replaced by a newer fridge complete with ice maker. The IH now resides at my sister's and is still icy cold. Dad fabricated a new door gasket years ago, along with brazing up a door handle to replace the pot metal one that broke.

Over 15 years ago we purchased a used Maytag washer & dryer for $250. I'm thinking early 70s with the woodgrain control panels. The washer continues to function flawlessly, and all I've had to do to the dryer is replace the heating element about 10 years ago and a new belt last year. As long as they can be repaired they'll never be replaced.