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  #286  
Old 09-12-2024, 11:00 PM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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Ok so that’s close enough to -4.5v DC?
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  #287  
Old 09-13-2024, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
Ok so that’s close enough to -4.5v DC?
Lol. 4.0 to 5.0 would be okay. It is because as the age changes the bias, the stagger tuned stages response can change. For the traps, the bias is set and you must be careful not to overload the amplifiers as you could get a false null.
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  #288  
Old 09-13-2024, 06:54 AM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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Wow, I just read through the adjustment of the traps and there's lots to do! I'm sorta' excited about finally, after a staggering, meandering start, getting somewhere. I've hardly done anything to the alignment and the picture resolution with a multi-burst signal is pretty good.
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  #289  
Old 09-13-2024, 07:44 AM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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...and this is where my foundations get a bit thin. What are these "traps" for and why are they called traps? I think, from what I've done and read, they are basically filters that remove unwanted noise from the signal, shunting noise to ground? The ten different megacycle signals from the signal generator fed into the converter grid where the voltage across the resistor is adjusted to a minimum...are those the frequencies we want to pass through the traps with the noise filtered out? Is that the purpose of this set of adjustments? I'm certain my description is devoid of correct terms and electronics specific language but, best I can do!!!
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  #290  
Old 09-13-2024, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
...and this is where my foundations get a bit thin. What are these "traps" for and why are they called traps? I think, from what I've done and read, they are basically filters that remove unwanted noise from the signal, shunting noise to ground? The ten different megacycle signals from the signal generator fed into the converter grid where the voltage across the resistor is adjusted to a minimum...are those the frequencies we want to pass through the traps with the noise filtered out? Is that the purpose of this set of adjustments? I'm certain my description is devoid of correct terms and electronics specific language but, best I can do!!!
The traps are to remove or suppress undesired signals. They essentially suck out or remove certain frequencies.There are three pairs of traps: two lower adjacent video carrier traps, two lower adjacent sound carrier traps and two in band sound carrier traps. The adjacent channel traps were to supress interference from adjacent channels eg if you wish to watch channel 9, the traps will suppress channel 10 video and channel 8 sound if present.

The adjacent channel traps are less important today.But it is important that the traps are correctly set as they will affect the overall video and audio performance of the set. Note the heavy suppression of the 21.25MHz sound carrier allows the video bandwidth to reach the full 4 MHz wide response. Remember most sets of the 1950's bandwdth extended only to 2.5 MHz to around 3 MHz, so this set can produce a much better resolved picture than most other sets.

History; When this set first appeared in 1948, it was when the FCC imposed the channel construction freeze. In 1948 was the first cyclical sun spot peak since television began. The effect was to cause interference between TV stations between cities due to the FCC based upon only line of sight planning. The sun spot peak showed that the signals could travel considerably further than the horizon. Hence in this set design to help mitigate interfence, thorough adjacent channel trapping or suppression was added.

Between 1948-1952, TV stations construction was halted while the industry explored a solution which ultimately resulted in UHF channels 14 to 83 being approved by the FCC in 1952.

A sidenote: I have a model 8T243 (same chassis) and used it for DXing (fishing for distant stations) during the sunspot peak in 1972. I was then able to receive from Toronto Canada, KCMO TV channel 5 Kansas City MO and WPTV channel 5 West Palm Beach Florida. Channel 5 was unallocated in the Southern Ontario Canada/ Western NY region but a strong adjacent channel 6 (CBLT Toronto) prevented all other sets from seeing the channel 5. (After 1952, the adjacent channel suppression in the design was a lot less because of the opening of the UHF band). The set was brilliant for DXing (long distance stations). I last used the same set for DXing in 2009 to view the 'night light' few remaining analog TV stations across the US. I was living in southern Illinois at the time and in 2009 on this set via a 50 foot outside antenna received stations in Phoenix AZ, Albuquerque NM, Denver CO, Regina Saskatchewan, Fredericton New Brunswick, Boston Mass, West Palm Beach FL and Monterrey Mexico. All from the same antenna! So this set was terrific for DXing because of those the traps!

I your case, the most inportant traps to be spot on are the 27.25MHz (lower adjacent sound) and the 21.25MHz sound trap as they especially affect the overall video response. The 19.75MHz trap adjust is only important to ensure it does not tune into the video and audio pass bands as they could distort the response.

Last edited by Penthode; 09-13-2024 at 11:29 AM.
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  #291  
Old 09-13-2024, 10:04 AM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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Wow…fantastic information and facinating story about the sunspot storm in 1972.
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  #292  
Old 09-13-2024, 10:18 AM
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Goodness I think I’m starting to understand some of this! The 21.25 and 27.25 suppression in the video if by the traps thereby expands the video bandwidth?
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  #293  
Old 09-13-2024, 11:23 AM
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Goodness I think I’m starting to understand some of this! The 21.25 and 27.25 suppression in the video if by the traps thereby expands the video bandwidth?
The importance of setting the 27.25MHz traps is to help ensure the video carrier is at about 45% on the Nyquist slope. The 21.25MHz traps provide the sharp attenuation below 22.1MHz to allow a wider video bandwidth without the sound interfering with the video. If the 21.25MHz traps are misaligned, you may see a sound carrier beat with the video carrier which is a fine pattern interference. Also the first 21.25MHz trap is the sound take off point for the sound IF amplifier.

Last edited by Penthode; 09-13-2024 at 11:31 AM.
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  #294  
Old 09-13-2024, 04:54 PM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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And the name “a trap”… does that refer to the trap coil filtering out that one frequency?
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  #295  
Old 09-13-2024, 05:26 PM
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And the name “a trap”… does that refer to the trap coil filtering out that one frequency?
You got it!
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  #296  
Old 09-13-2024, 05:37 PM
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Yep. It's just a coil and cap in parallel. Traps the resonant frequency.
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  #297  
Old 09-13-2024, 07:15 PM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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Does it matter what side of R119 I connect the VTVM? And signal strength on the generator? Cant find that, just where to inject it

Last edited by Chris K; 09-13-2024 at 07:29 PM.
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  #298  
Old 09-13-2024, 08:03 PM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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I'm pretty certain this is R119 but I'm getting voltage that's pegging the VTVM when I use the suggested 3 volt scale (I'm using the 5V because my VTVM has 1.5V and 5V scale ranges). I was on the other side of the resistor than in this photo when I got that but I'm hesitant to go further. The pot is adjusted for -4.5V DC at the intersection of R135 and R136 on my DMM

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  #299  
Old 09-13-2024, 08:24 PM
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I see only one clip lead on the load resistor. Where is the other lead? Is that lead to the VTVM?

Read the instructions. It says you connect the VTVM ACROSS R119. The reason the meter is pegging is because you are measuring the -120vdc B supply!

Going back to the shock hazard thing again: do you understand that the case of the VTVM when you hook it's other "ground" lead to the other end of the resistor, the case of the VTVM will be at -120vdc with respect to the chassis?

Last edited by Penthode; 09-13-2024 at 08:36 PM.
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  #300  
Old 09-13-2024, 08:24 PM
Chris K Chris K is offline
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Wait...connect the VTVM "ACROSS" R119? Does that mean DC probe on one side of R119 and ground clip on the other side of R119?
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