Westinghouse K840CK15 Restoration

[etype2]

I see said the blind man.

Thank you gentlemen, the both of you and also Electronic M.

Very well explained and clears up my misconceptions. Moving forward.

About Ed Reitan. I never met him, but spoke to him on the phone. I think you all know of his contributions to our hobby and was sad to learn of his passing. We were lucky to “win” a CTC-7 Worthington at an ETF auction. It belonged to the estate of Ed Reitan. RIP. Was thrilled to be the custodian and set about a full restoration with Mike Doyle. I liked the provenance of the set and it’s design.

Created a tribute to Ed on this website. https://visions4magazine.com/2017/04...rst-blog-post/ It’s hosted for free and loaded with advertisements. I apologize for that. You can see a sneak preview of “An Evening With Fred Astaire” displayed on a 21CT55, with the goal of displaying the Special on Ed’s CTC-7. Both the Worthington and Special were introduced in 1958. We have since accomplished this but I can’t show it to you because Mr. Astaire’s widow will come down hard. She is strongly opposed to having the Special on the internet. Many thanks to the generous donor who shall be nameless.

[etype2]

“In the case of Photoshop, since it is dealing with files that have the gamma correction baked in, they undo the gamma correction from the camera, make the color adjustment, and redo the gamma correction for the monitor”.

Is there a special program to do this or is this built in to Photoshop? Does Photoshop tell you the values of absolute black or white or green etc; expressed numerically? And I need a matched monitor?

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by etype2

“In the case of Photoshop, since it is dealing with files that have the gamma correction baked in, they undo the gamma correction from the camera, make the color adjustment, and redo the gamma correction for the monitor”.

Is there a special program to do this or is this built in to Photoshop? Does Photoshop tell you the values of absolute black or white or green etc; expressed numerically? And I need a matched monitor?

Built in. It's all part of a color-managed workflow, where each device is profiled/calibrated and photoshop knows the info. In other words, your computer should have a profile for your monitor (a generic one like sRGB, or a factory-supplied default, or a profile measured with a calibration instrument); your camera records things in a particular color space like sRGB or as a raw file that has known characteristics from the maker; your printer/paper combination can have a profile, (or Photoshop may output in a standard space while the manufacturer's printer driver converts the color to ink values). Photoshop converts everything into its own working space for manipulation and then renders it in the monitor space for viewing and the printer/paper space for printing.

[old_tv_nut]

Photoshop tells you the RGB values in its working color space (sRGB, ProPhoto, or whatever you have chosen) which includes a non-linear transfer function, for example, the "gamma correction" in sRGB. It does not tell you linear amounts of red, green and blue light primary colors. Although not strictly logarithmic (like photographic F-stops), it is similar, and makes for useful, readable histograms.

Photoshop is aimed at the needs of photographers and artists, not scientists. Some operations in Photoshop may actually work in linear space (the conversion from one set of primaries to a different set, for exmple) but this is buried in the middle of the process and is not displayed to the user.

Another example of something Photoshop/Camera Raw and Lightroom do without mentioning it is to apply an S-curve transfer function to images. This base curve can be modified by the contrast adjustment. It is essential to getting pleasing photos (as Kodak discovered in the late 1800s), but Photoshop never tells the user what the curve actually looks like. This curve is applied before any Curves adjustment made by the user, so even if you leave the Curves adjustment set to linear, the overall process has an S-curve built in.

There are many other details to photo-editing software that are designed to make the best looking and therefore not scientifically accurate photos, just as was the case with film.

The S-curve both compensates for the reduced contrast impression of the eye when viewing a print as compared to the original scene, and also makes it possible to use a display device or print process with limited contrast range to display a scene that originally had a much higher contrast range, without hard clipping of highlights and shadows.

[etype2]

” There are many other details to photo-editing software that are designed to make the best looking and therefore not scientifically accurate photos, just as was the case with film. ”

Looks like I’ll be getting a monitor or laptop for Photoshop. Don’t have Photoshop yet. For iPad they rent it, for PC or Mac they sell it. I’ve read that color professionals and artists prefer Mac. I just have to make sure of the color profiles available with the devices. Photoshop has always intimidated me. I asked about numeric color values because I recall seeing a PS screenshot with some color and a number or value. So I’m here thinking if you go to a CSS color chart, look up the color values, one could dial them in with PS.

EDIT: I’ve had software, not PS that gives the CSS color value when clicked on, so it could easily be reproduced.

Will be posting a screenshot or two shortly to keep this thread on topic.

[etype2]

” Probably the best set for seeing the full quality of early NTSC would be a 21CT55 or a CBS 205 which had the wideband chroma, fine phosphor dot pitch and NTSC phosphored CRTs.”

Having both of these sets restored, (not the CBS 205) I agree that that the dot structure is more visible on a 15GP22. The phosphor application on my 15GP22 is uneven at the edges and can be seen in my shots. I guess they hadn’t perfected the application process in the first CRT.

[dtvmcdonald]

I'd sure love to see a 21CT55 that has been restored and tuned to perfection.
In fact I don't recall seeing any 21 inch roundie at the ETF with a
picture I would call better than poor. The CT-100 and Westy there have, at times, been in first rate tune.

In my opinion the dot pitch on the 15GP22 is adequate for a set with a luminance trap at 3.6 MHz.

[etype2]

My 21CT55 has been restored to the best it can be by Mike Doyle. It produces brighter images but IMO, the color is not as good as my Westy. All things being equal, I chalk it up to the condition of my 21CT55.

[etype2]

Back to the Westy.

This is a degraded converted JPEG from a tiff file shot in RAW. Allows me to post on this forum page.



This file is a full resolution version, 126 MB TIFF file. Image captured from the Westy with 15GP22 on March 15, 2021. Vivian Leigh, 1939, Gone With The Wind, three strip Technicolor on DVD.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...C93E4EF52.jpeg

I like this image because of the color tones which gives the color image a dimensional look, 3D if you will. Many times a portrait can be flat and dull. Technicolor and the 15GP22 may be responsible if you like or dislike this photo. If you can download the Tiff file, you will see dot per dot which is obscured in the JPEG. Not bad resolution. I dialed back the saturation, but you may feel it’s over saturated.

[etype2]

A few more screenshots from the Westinghouse H840CK15 with 15GP22.

They were shot in RAW, processed as TIFF, and converted to JPEG to reduce enormous files sizes.

For the Kelly greens.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...F20364781.jpeg

The Devine Miss M.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...3CE2BC9B3.jpeg

Illuminated by theatrical lightning.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...D12C7C0B2.jpeg

Scarlett.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...3FDFECF6E.jpeg

[consoleguy67]

Absolutely beautiful!!

[etype2]

Originally Posted by consoleguy67

Absolutely beautiful!!

Thank you.

A few shots to show the dot structure. Not nearly as bad as the first generation Porta Color. Pinch out the images to enlarge.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...659845870.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...24CC2DBCF2.png

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...F02DA1406.jpeg

[Popester]

Marshall, that is so cool to see those images. It still amazes me that America had this kind of technology back in the mid ‘50’s. Thanks so much for sharing these images. If only young people today could realize what we once had here in our great country before everything was BPC era.

[etype2]

Never imagined a 67 year color television capable of these images. All credit to Mike Doyle in his restoration efforts, alignment, etc.

This high contrast image under bright theatrical lighting and full stage makeup from the 1948 three strip Technicolor film, The Red Shoes. This was enlarged about 100% to fill in my iPad Pro 2 10.5 screen without the image masked. P3 color space.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...BFF5FC72C.jpeg


I’ll take credit for the cabinet restoration.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...A8D6A07C2.jpeg

Enjoying the set and it’s been operating flawlessly. The tuner is rock solid with no drift. I don’t need to adjust color controls. They lock in about 10 minutes. Coming up on the two year anniversary since completed restoration on September 30, 2019. Will shoot some shots then.

[etype2]

This one has a more dimensional look from the textured lighting and more aesthetically pleasing to this viewers eyes. Natalie Kalmus was in charge of Technicolor staging and processing of this film.

Once again, bright stage lighting, but this time with the actress normal hair color. P3 color gamut. RAW file, processed in TIFF, reduced to PNG for file management.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...62BA4AA54.jpeg