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#1
10-03-2013, 01:57 PM
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Yah, I would like to know what the voltages are on that driver transistor....
No need for the scope, the shape on the output looks ok, so no need. q803. Follow the trace to the next component if its more convenient to take a voltage reading. You can measure off the resistor, that 40 ohm, just get the side that goes to the transistor... Same with the base, get it off the r814, one side is ground.... 180 ohms another 5% resistor... That 40 ohm resistor says it should be 5%, but its off by more than 10%..... close to 20% off..... Any discoloring on that resistor.... Was that HV Transformer arcing? did you add that silicone to the HVT? Do you have any idea if the HV to the picture tube is on target, high or low...? If you were to take out the HOT and check the voltage at tp5, does it come back to normal....? Not sure if you have run the set without it in there or not....? Not entirely sure if its safe, I would think it is....
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Yes you can call me "Squirrel boy" Last edited by Username1; 10-03-2013 at 02:32 PM. 
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#2
10-03-2013, 02:18 PM
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#3
10-03-2013, 02:53 PM
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I don't have an HV probe, so I couldn't tell you. This makes me think of something I've been meaning to ask. Whenever they talk about safety they get on the fact you need to discharge the CRT at the anode. They say to use a screwdriver connected to ground. So I take a long screwdriver, clip an alligator clip lead to it and clip the other end to chassis ground. I then slip the tip under the cap and touch the connection. They say you should hear a "snap" and should do it a couple of time. I've done this several times while working on this set and not once this it make a noise or give any indication that it discharged. Last time I took out the chassis I just turned off the set, pulled the plug and in less than 3 minutes later I tried to discharge and nothing. When I killed the HOT the other week, I ran the set without it (was the only way to keep the circuit breaker from going. I don't see why I couldn't remove it and measure T5 again. Do you want just a DMM voltage or a scope waveform?
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#4
10-03-2013, 02:35 PM
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Sorry, I have added stuff above....
That diode in the HOT collector, is that been tested, and do you know if its the right one? It would need to be a high speed diode, not a power supply 60hz diode, but a fast one... And I see there is a 1.5 ohm resistor on the secondary of the coupling transformer going to the HOT base, is that 1.5 ohm resistor been checked...? goes to ground, and one leg of that transformer, secondary.
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Yes you can call me "Squirrel boy" Last edited by Username1; 10-03-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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#5
10-03-2013, 02:46 PM
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I couldn't tell you if it's the correct one, and I do have an NOS replacement if needed. The replacement isn't a cylinder like the current one. It's shaped kind of like a barrel.
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#6
10-03-2013, 03:21 PM
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Well here is my thinking...
The horiz driver transistor, 67v 2.x, and 2.x tells me that it looks to be within reason given something is wrong elsewhere in the immediate area. The large signal on the base of the HOT leads me to think possibly open 1.5 ohm resistor in the secondary of the coupling transformer... You should check that. Then there is that diode in the collector of the HOT. That diode is to arrest, or stop a sharp negative pulse coming from the HVT when the transistor turns off. If this diode was not turning on fast enough would there be a sharp negative pulse there, and would it be traveling back to the coupling transformer???? It could also be allowing the HVT to be producing those jail bars.... Its all reason, What's going on, and testing. There are some clues around that area, so its just trying to see what part could reasonably be bad, still let most of it work properly, but still be causing some minor problems.... That doide, If you have a new one, might be smart to put it in since it will be spec. when you do.... And on that picture tube discharge, on all tube sets there is more likely a long term charge held, but on a trippler set there are little bleeder resistors, and leakage through the caps in there, more so than a tube rectifier alone... While its best practice to discharge always, if there is no change, don't loose sleep over it.
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Yes you can call me "Squirrel boy" Last edited by Username1; 10-03-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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#7
10-03-2013, 03:52 PM
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If you can think of anything else while the chassis is out, that would be great. It's much easier to test/replace when it's on the bench.
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#8
10-03-2013, 04:37 PM
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I know its trying to be taken in different directions by different people with ideas about what can be wrong. I'm quite surprised you have not called us all a bunch of nuts by now and thrown that tv off the roof and went and got another off CL for free or $10. and just said the hell with it...... : )
If its not right in that area of the coupling transformer, that diode, open resistor, then it's got to be the pink fairy inside the flyback, she probably can't get any air cause of that extra silicone on it..... I know it's a Letterman thing, but you may be able to plead your case to Lenno, he's on your coast, maybe he'll make an exception and do a Letterman and toss it off a roof for you and put it on national tv..... Could be the best solution to the problem...
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Yes you can call me "Squirrel boy" Last edited by Username1; 10-03-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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#9
10-03-2013, 05:17 PM
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#10
10-03-2013, 07:24 PM
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Okay, she's got the new damper diode and the 1.5ohm resistor. The resistor tested as 1.8 and the one I replaced it with was dead on 1.5.
I also tested the resistance of the coupler transformer and one side was pretty much dead on at .23ohm (Sams has .25) and the other side was 92ohm (Sams has it at 100ohm). She's been running for a little bit now and nothing blew up. The jail bars are still there, though. Not sure where to go next.
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#11
10-03-2013, 07:33 PM
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I'm not too sure what to think of next either....
Well, you know about now, I would be taking a small cap and jumping those caps after the collector of the HOT with the set on and watching the screen to see what it does.... Not recommended, But if you ran across a spot that made a change in those jail bars, it might be worth it.... Do you think anyone ever removed a metal shield from somewhere and never put it back ? I really don't think its in the yoke, so it's probably a bad yoke....
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Yes you can call me "Squirrel boy" Last edited by Username1; 10-03-2013 at 07:43 PM.
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#12
10-03-2013, 08:49 PM
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All the shields seemed to be in place when I got it. The only one removed was when I put in a new, updated, subcarrier regen module. It was redesigned with a small shield on it to protect from interference. The last person to adjust the APC stripped the plastic slot in the pot and then pushed it so hard they broke it free from the solder joint. The jail bars were there with the old and still there with the new, so I'm sure it's not the shielding.
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#13
10-04-2013, 09:42 AM
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Perhaps this has been asked and answered but will bring it up.
I presume the jail bars are caused by either of the below: video info (lack of blanking during retrace) video info (ringing happening during trace) non linear sweep during trace (not likely) if this was the case I would think holding the scope prob near the horz leads of the yoke should give a wave pattern that would have the ringing during the rise time, but that is just a guess. Did you ever try putting on a blanked out screen and scoping the G1's (and may was well look at the cathodes and G2 for that matter, even though they should not have video info). with an blanked out screen you should have no AC signal at the G1 (or cathodes and G2 for that matter). You should adjust the brightness and contrast on the blank screen to make the jail bars as bad as possible. This should be done with a blank screen image being fed to the tuner so you can see the horz sync pulse (the blanking period) followed by a burst pulse. If there in no AC signal between H sync pulses, then is seems it would HAVE to be insufficent blanking during retrace. If that's the case I would still be hung up on how you have the brightness/contrast/screen drives setup. I think this is the same set that you said you could not get the CRT setup done when using the described SAMs method using the setup switch and G2 adjustments. Last edited by DaveWM; 10-04-2013 at 09:47 AM.
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#14
10-04-2013, 11:00 AM
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I had to pull the IF and adjust the G2s for a dim raster. Checking the voltages, they are within the range noted by Sams. My new pattern generator allows me to pretty much blank everything out and just leave the jail bars (IQW off, chroma off and luminance off). So I should pull the socket back a bit, put the probe's j-hook on each of the G1s and the cathodes. My scope is not designed for the voltage found on the G2s and I don't have a HV probe. As for the ringing around the yoke, I see a ringing type pattern in that whole area, especially the focus wire (just having the probe near, not touching). I don't know if it's actual ringing or just a normal electrical field the scope is picking up. I'm attaching a pic of what the scope sees in the general HV area and around the yoke wires, focus wire and FB.
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Pioneer SX-1080, Pioneer PL-115D, Pioneer CT-F9191, Pioneer RG-1, Wollensak 8050A, Akai 4000DS MkII, Pioneer CS-05 & Polk 1.2TL Denon 5803A, Pioneer DVL-700, Pioneer CT-W603RS, Toshiba HD-A3, D-Link DSM-520, Dish VIP-722, Polk 1.2TL, CSi5, LS/fx, RT-800 and PSW-650
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#15
10-04-2013, 12:26 PM
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the G2 is prob around 800v max, at 10x and if you have a 10v setting on the scope you should be able to read it, besides you will have the scope on AC so it should not matter. Start with 10x 10v then AC and then switch to lower and lower voltage settings on scope, that covers the G2, but there really should be no AC here anyway. Same goes for the cathodes.
G1 is where the video signal shows up (luma and chroma on this set) again start with 10x on 10v AC and work down the voltage, looking for a wave form pattern between Horz blanking pulses, the dark screen should be still a fair amount below the max amplitude found on the horz blanking pulse. Generally speaking the horz video pulse should blank out the signal during flyback time, it is aided by the pulse from the fly that is fed to that blanking transistor (talking horz now) to furter cut off the CRT. Zeno, any possibility this could be an AGC issue? maybe limiting the blacker that black region? Tin Can give us a good shot of the CRT with the jail bars again with a transmitted blank screen. Adj the contrast and brightness to max and min the effect, then lets see some actual images using those same max and min settings. the question that needs to be figured is jail bars in video or sweep. the below I really don't think is the issue, I still want to think its a blanking issue, not enough cut off to the CRT during flyback) but here it is: as far as the horz sweep, you want to look at the rise time not the ringing after the drop off (that is a given and will always be there to some extent). can you see the horz rise by holding the prob right up near one of the horz defection coil leads? if so look at the rise, is in smooth or rippled, the ringing you are showing in that other pic is I presume the ringing after the sudden drop off, not during the trace part of the scan. You want to see if the trace part is smooth. Last edited by DaveWM; 10-04-2013 at 12:41 PM.
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