Will sets left alone be worth more?
 

Lets face it, most of us have sets that have had chassis rebuilds..or at least had a few caps replaced. It seems we're going to come to a point in the near future where it would be hard to find sets that have been "untouched". So my question is this: Do you think that say 20 years from now a set that has never been repaired would be worth more then one that has been repaired, even if the unrepaired set doesnt work?

It just seems that soon a vintage set with the original caps still in it would be nearly impossible to find, hence making it more valuable. at least that is my little theory. The reason I ask is because I have several sets that are virtually untouched, the one in my avatar is a good example, but I know these sets wont last forever without some type of electronic restoration. I would really like to hear your opinions on this as I dont see anything like this discussed yet. :scratch2:

From my viewpoint they wouldn't be worth more because I'm not interested in it if I can't make it work. That's if you're talking 20-40 years from now. (As long as I expect to be around)

However, I would find it more valuable if they rebuilt the paper and electrolytic capacitors so they looked original. Of course that might be difficult with black beauties and postage stamp paper caps.

And if I were around a 100 years from now and had money to burn I probably would like a piece of ancient technology where everything was original. Then it would be worth more to me.

How's that for waffling?

John

I like to recap all my sets, I'm more interested in seeing if can get all my sets working more than I want them to look 100% original. I watch my vintage sets regularly and before I started recapping them I was taking apart sets I had already fixed for new repairs almost weekly. Although if I ever got a really rare set like a 15" roundie, or a pre-war b/w I might restuff the caps instead of just changing them. It is an interesting idea that there won't be anything left but recapped sets in 10-20 years or so, I would also think that only very new sets and the older sets from the early 70s and back will still be around, probably won't see many sets from the 80s, 90s or today.

Well, I have two restos under my belt, the 630TS and the DuMont RA-105B. I recapped them completely, but, I saved the old caps and took extensive digital pics of the Chassis, just in case someone (me?) in the future wants to restuff them all and put them back in.

I want them to work, now, and I want them to LOOK new, like just out of the box. My best talents are cosmetic restoration, and I have just enough knowledge of electronics to be slightly less than dangerous, but, I'm getting better.

Thank God for Guardian Angels, here and elsewhere.

I believe cosmetic condition is a bigger factor now, and in the future. But, if you can restore a Set cosmetically, perfectly, so it looks like a Time Machine, it's worth more. Far more. If you come up short in this department, and do a hack job, it's worth garbage...

LJB:smoke:

Will virgin, unmolested sets be worth more? I doubt it.

Take vintage autos for example. Even those that are garaged and are for show only need maintenance. Hoses and belts deteriorate, fluids deteriorate etc. Certainly the value of the vehicle does not fall.

I doubt that there are but a handful of truly vintage, virgin, and unmolested televisions and radios anywhere. After all in the 50's and 60's and even into the late 80's there were thousands of tv / radio repair shops keeping these sets alive. It is understood that these sets REQUIRED maintenance, and if done properly the set should not loose value.

I cannot agree with the originality of the contents of the underchassis having an impact on value; the outer cosmetics and the workability of the set should take priority.

Some might get fanatic enough to core out the old cylindrical capacitors and try to stuff the replacements inside to make the underchassis look like it did originally, but I personally could never be bothered. Nobody else besides the techie will care. I will go so far as to leave an old twist-lok can in place, even if it is excluded from the circuitry and axials installed underneath to replace it; I don't favor removing them and leaving the nasty-looking hole in the chassis top. But that's as far as I'm apt to go.

I look at it this way: any changes to a set are part of its long history--all repairs made to it tell a story. That has to be of some value in itself.

One set I've got here, an Emerson seems to have a replacement CRT made by a company that once existed in Springfield, MA--the Crown Company. Has anybody ever heard of them?

My 1960 Electrohome still has the factory CRT, with good (not like new, but definitely
good) emission and only a small burn spot in the middle of the screen. As long as
I can keep it going with that tube, it is original enough for me. I believe the tubes
in the tuner are also original, but if they test low I will definitely replace them, so that
the set can live in its intended mode until that dreaded date in August, 2011.

P.S.: Yes, it is the set in my avatar with me watching the blank screen!

If the resto was done right (if the tech used quality parts, and didn't cut corners) than it could be worth more IMO.

But if it's all hacked up, someone competent will have to take the time to make it right again, and the set won't be worth much anymore.

But there's nothing like finding a set that has NEVER been opened, or has only had some tubes changed out. Sure, it'll be a project to re-cap the damn thing, but at least it's a prime candidate!

I would pay more for a properly functioning, non-original set than one with a vertical burn line and a smoked flyback because someone decided to keep it 'original'. (as long as 'properly-working' does NOT mean a color Samsung in the chassis' place!!! :nono:)

I have to respectfully disagree with most of the above opinions.

A "virgin" nonworking set is far more desirable to me, and also to at least 3 other bigtime collectors with whom I've been acquainted for a long time. In the case of prewar sets, it can bring the value down dramatically if they've been recapped or otherwise disturbed. HOWEVER, with more common collector sets, (i.e. Predictas, 630 TS's, and probably most all color sets, a recap and rendering into working order is fine. One of the very few Zenith 43M20 color prototype 15" sets still to exist is 100% virgin, and has about 2,000,000 Sprague striped Black Beauties in it. That set will NEVER be recapped, although the original screw-head 15" tube is GOOD!

Bottom line: If the TV has already been fooled with, or if it's not really a rare set, go have at it! But if it's untouched, leave it alone and trade it to another collector for a recapped, working set.

Charles

Think of antique radios..something around for 70+ years..same situation. It's always nice to find something that has'nt been molested and even in this catagory there will at least been a time when the electrolytics have been changed in some (haphazard) way if anything. I'm very anal retentive about my work to an artform.. Okay, I don't restuff wax capacitors but someone that takes things to that level I won't fault them either but admire. I do restuff Philco bakelite capacitors and electrolytics...makes things so much neater and makes sense.
I also look at it this way...sometime after I'm gone or someone else owns something of mine I would not want anybody to have to "redo" my work!!
Now with what all we know about electronics, and variations/conditions of, you may understand why you never see old electronics on Antique Roadshow!!

So ... Say a collector finds the rarest of the rare, a color prototype perhaps, or even a b/w prototype, or an original, pristine, museum quality CT 100 with the original hang tags and paperwork and bill of sale, or a pre-war set, tucked away in an attic for the past 50 years...What should he/she do??

The answer. Leave it alone. Do NOT remove it. DO NOT change it in any way. Leave it right where it is. Where it has been for the past 1/2 century. Leave it where no one can gaze upon it and marvel at it. But if one must take it, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT bring it operational. DO NOT replace any component that is no longer within tolerance, Heck, don't even disturb the dust on the set or within the set, after all it also is a part of the sets history.

I have to agree with kx250rider. Most old TVs and radios got regular maintenance during their service lives. That was part of their history, and if we choose to restore them to working condition, that's their next phase in life. We --and future owners -- can enjoy them working as originally designed.

I make exception only for Very Special sets and leave them untouched. My Zenith TransOceanic 7G605 "Bomber" has never been touched, and I will never mess with it (or play it). Same for the leather-cased A600L TransOceanic which belonged to Joan Fontaine. I will leave it exactly as it was when it left her hands.

http://www.antiqueradio.org/zen32.htm

Even for a common set, I will always pay more for an unmolested original than one that has been newly restored. I would rather do the restoration to my own tastes. Let me be the one to decide whether to restuff capacitors, etc. But maybe I'm just a fussbudget :)

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Hi, I have to agree with kx250rider too. An untouched and unmolested tv set is of more value than a recapped tv set. In some centuries, none of these vintage tv sets of today would work. In these times, an untouched set is of the highest value since it is the rarest one.

We have here in the Halberstadt cathedral old clothes which are 800 years old. They are unmolested and untouched, and therefore, they are of highest value. No one could buy them due to the high price. On the other hand, 800 year old clothes which were fixed and repaired are of no value, one can even find them on the fleamarket from time to time for a few dollars.

That's the difference.

Kind regards,
Eckhard

I'm with Charles on this as well. If the set has already been worked on, or butchered in the past, then there is no question that keeping it in working order is a plus. Most sets from the 1950's on will probably already have been worked on at some point in their lives anyway, so it's just a matter of maintaining the set in good working order.

If the set is something special and is in original condition, than I view this as a plus. Being able to see what the factory original did on an untouched set makes for a nice time capsule. There isn't much sense in redoing a set like the Zenith Charles mentioned when there are other 15" sets that are already in working order if that's what you want. In 50 or 100 years, they probably won't care if the set works or not as they will be far advanced from this technology, so having it original would be of more value.

I have seen many original, untouched cars (including original tires, hoses, spark plugs, etc.) go for very high prices, much higher than restored examples, but it's ultimately up to the buyer and seller to put a value on these things. Many people wouldn't pay a dollar for a car that is basically undriveable, versus one that is fully restored and can be driven anywhere. To each his own. That what makes collecting fun.

Darryl

Yup!

And one could win the lottery, too. Most (I didn't say all!) early sets were bound to have repair work done on them every year or so. While today's sets are by and large crummy 10-year throwaways during those 10 years they usually don't seem to need service. But at the end of that lifespan the set will become no longer operable, or the quality of operation has deteriorated to a great degree. Then you open up the set, and find that the vast majority of the stand-up electrolytics have either puffed up, or pulled up their skirts. One could re-cap the board, and then the next thing something in the power supply lets go. Reliability goes downhill rapidly. The tiny PC assembly is cooked, and every component on it crying out for renewal.

The early sets required regular tweaking and maintenance, and many have lasted over half a century of either disuse, or moderate use and continuous maintenance, or any condition in the continuum between. The reliability of properly-restored earlier sets will be the same now as when they were new. And that is a reliability nowhere near what late model sets give--for about 10 years for most makes.


Amen to that! :thmbsp:

"The early sets required regular tweaking and maintenance, and many have lasted over half a century of either disuse, or moderate use and continuous maintenance, or any condition in the continuum between. The reliability of properly-restored earlier sets will be the same now as when they were new. And that is a reliability nowhere near what late model sets give--for about 10 years for most makes."





How true the above quote is.

You know that there are days that I get really frustrated with the vintage sets.
Even my 80's and 90's sets occasionally require tweaking, whether it be readjusting the color, tint brightness, contrast etc.

Sometimes I am really tempted to run to a big box store and just buy a new lcd or plasma set as an everyday watcher. Any brand should do, ... from what I see only the name on the sets are different. At least with one of these, all I should have to do for the next 10 years is change the remote batteries.

Wow thanks for all the reply's guys, its been really interesting reading all the posts. Can anyone tell me if Packard Bell made all of their own tubes? I remember reading somewhere that there are certain tubes that were only made by a few companies...

I just rechecked my avatar set and all the tubes are PB except for one RCA tube. I guess that means its not 100% factory original :worried:

For some reason its been difficult to find any info on this particular set, or even PB TV's in general. I think mainly because its not old enough to be of interest to most collectors...but oh well. I also noticed that a previous owner carved their SSN into the back...I thought that was interesting :scratch2:

Your enthusiasm for originality is commendable, however you've got to
realize that tubes in TV set were 'normal wear items'. If you have determined
that nearly all of the tubes in your set are factory originals (from date codes
or otherwise), you can still be proud of what you have on hand: it is
most likely that your set has very few hours of operation.

You should note that many TV manufacturers used custom branded tubes
that were actually made by one or more of the tube companies. I don't
think that Packard Bell was into vacuum tube production, but someone
else may have more accurate info on this. Good luck!

I had thought about this question before as it pertains to old radios, and my answer works here as well: some folks will pay huge money for an unbuilt Heathkit because they want to be the guy who gets to put it together. Many of us get our joy out of old sets by recapping them and troubleshooting, getting them back to working condition. There will come a day when the percentage of sets that have not been through the hands of collectors will be very, very small. Some of us, many years from now, will lament the fact that we have nothing left in our collection that needs an old-fashioned recap. We will hunger for a 'virgin'. We will someday pay extra for that.

I'm fairly certain that Packard-Bell never manufactured a single tube; they bought them from other companies who applied the P-B name. If you are a real stickler you could try to find a good P-B replacement; probably not too easy, but somebody will have it.

Same here. I have a Majestic 71 radio that I bought last year. Nice wood, the radio works, $100 didn't seem bad. But I don't care for the previous electronic restoration so I'm redoing it.

Undoing their repairs is going to be more work than if they hadn't worked on it. In this case, yeah only the tech (me) knows what's in there. But I do know and it bothers me. Actually I'm glad there's something left for me to work on.

There will be some performance improvement when I'm done, but it won't be alot. The work I'm putting into it would be more somewhat more rewarding if it was needed to make the radio work.

John