How rough is too rough?
 

Just wondering what different people's standards are on condition. Where do you draw the line between keeping a set for the collection and display after taking the time and money to get it going and simply parting out, donating or discarding.

The thought came to mind as lately I remembered that I had put a 1949 Philco AM-FM Bakelite set out in the shed that had a decent cabinet but a roached chassis. When I say roached I usually mean rusted chassis which usually comes with frayed wiring. Both likely the results of mice making homes inside at some point in time, maybe decades.

I have figured out also that chassis in this condition hardly ever work as is, where as sets in better condition do. Sets in better condition I would say were kept in some sort of climate controlled environment or at least dry. Now I must say that I have a few sets that do happen to work that for whatever reason have developed a few rust spots which I try to clean up and use whatever rust deterrent chemical I may have on hand such as Naval Jelly and like products.

Now with this Philco I am not sure what to do as the cabinet is almost perfect with the ratty chassis. I wonder if I could find a decent chassis somewhere. That would be the thing to do, but it may be hard to find just a chassis somewhere and I don't want to buy a complete other radio to fix one in my shed. For the sake of the hopeful thread I will ad that if somehow I get a set that is beat up on the outside and the inside, but complete; I will try to donate it to a thrift store hoping maybe someone will make a few bucks and maybe it (the radio) and the money will go to good homes.

Too Rough, Indeed.
 

Too rough.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D...16%2520005.jpg

This Radiola 16 is only missing one knob. The cabinet is hopeless, but I'll save it for parts. The chassis is rusty and full of wasp nests (mud daubers). I wouldn't restore it without a cabinet, but the parts are worth saving, especially if they can be used in similar Radiola models.

Model 49-905 or 49-906?

IMHO, all early FM radios are quite collectable... If the cabinet is in good condition, I would polish it up, clean the chassis as well as possible and make it a "shelf queen" until you can find a better chassis or decide to restore the one you have. Having a *good* Bakelite cabinet is way more than half the battle. :yes:

Gallery of Philco radios... notice how few pre-1950 FM models were in the Philco line:
http://www.philcoradio.com/gallery/index.htm

I have a B956 (1954)... decent sounding, but not a great DX radio by today's standards.

jr

I picked up a beat up and incomplete Philco 70 cathedral at a local radio swap recently for $20. I have no idea why, other than the fact that it was cheap. No speaker, and as you can see, the arch top was cut for some reason :sigh:

Debated what to do with it, but I figured what the heck, I'll test tubes, throw some new filter caps and the bypass caps I could get to (without doing the bakelite blocks :smilemad:), see if I could locate a speaker, and find out if the old gal had any life.

I managed to pick up a Philco 70 console speaker on ebay for $10 plus shipping, replaced 2 tubes, did the caps as mentioned above, and what do you know, the son of a gun works!!!

So here I have an abused yet working 70. Now what?

I didn't want to really put any money into it, and figured that I could just mount the oversize speaker inside a small stand that the radio would sit on, and make an arch top out of something and use it.

But then I thought....wait a minute. If I Rube Goldberg this set now, some future collector is going to get their hands on this set and curse the day I was born in the same way I'd do that with someone that barn-jobbed something that I wanted to restore.

I decided to re-glue all of the loose but complete veneer on the speaker grille, and repair a missing chunk in the top right with a section from the side. Didn't turn out too bad so far. Still have to give it a coat of Howards. I'll end up buying a repro arch top from that guy that makes repro Philco cases, and eventually find the correct speaker. And then I'll have a really nice 70! Or at least decent :)

The moral of the story: even if it's pretty far gone, whatever you do, just keep in mind that we're but a step in the set's journey.

Look at it all as a way to improve all your skills..... Everyone here has attacked some
area of restoration that another person has not ever had to deal with... I feel like
someone from another planet when it comes to identifying or working with most woods.
Working on that cabinet would be the thing for me.... I would need it. I remember looking at
a 21CT55 I think on a seperate website where the cabinet was in need of complete off-frame
restoration.... I was to say the least, quite amazed at the result. I think the more work
that needs to be done, the more amazing it is when it's done.....

Good luck to you..

I have a 1932 GE floor radio with doors, the radio was replaced with a SC model 60 Works, but
the cabinet needs some real work, I had it since I was 14. One year I'm gunna attack it, it also needs a
wooden knob, same one on a lot of SC model 60's I have seen, so I'm sure the knobs are not from
the original cabinet, but from the replacement radio guts.....

.

Actually, it's a 49-906-121 AM-FM. The cabinet is made of plastic unfortunately, but looks great. I just don't know how something this nice could be so darned rusty. Some places no rust at all and then trails of rust going all the way across half of the speaker.

One thing interesting to me is that it has two on/off potentiometers. I haven't investigated yet what they do. Maybe some tech used a switchable pot where just a pot was needed. Obviously I haven't had the chassis out of the cabinet to see if there is wiring going to both switches.

I am fairly certain that the set is bakelite, although I have seen it identified as thermo-plastic. Easy to tell with a slightly destructive "melt test" in an inconspicuous area.

Stuff happens, perhaps mouse pee?

Seems likely, there is *no* reason to have a switch on *both* the tone (where it would be in this model) and volume controls.

jr

This URL gives the specs for the radio: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_49_906.html.

To quote them, the material is "Modern plastics (no Bakelite or Catalin)." But that doesn't make or break my decision. I'm going to try a little CLR on the rust, although I know there are better products. It's what I happen to have.

My decision point is not enough cabinet left to rebuild/remake, chassis rusted through such that important mountings are compromised or missing parts not worth looking for or buying. This is for very rare/desirable sets as the set in question moves towards dirt common/undesirable smaller things can be cause for execution, though I hate to destroy a set over something doable, and like a good challenge/practice candidate to potentially mess up while learning.

@Kamakiri: Why do block capacitors bug you? They are my favorite to rebuild. All you need to do is unsloder / unbolt making note of which wires go where. Look up the number to ascertain the contents. On the black tar type just chip the tar and old caps out with a screw driver (it is astonishingly easy, and can be done in <30 sec once practiced). Fish the new cap leads through the rivets to the terminals. Then bolt the sucker back in and reconnect the leads.

That Cathedral that Kamakiri has is almost identical to a Silvertone that I have. I know a lot of them were similar, but this is again nearly identical; even the chassis layout looks the same.

I know that Sears, who sold Silvertone, always had stuff made by major manufacturers and had their name stamped on it. I wonder if Philco did their Silvertone radios of that era.

Since this thread started with a Philco and there had been other mention of them, I just wanted to ad that Philco radios are just about the most reliable old radios there are. I have more of them working un-restored than most anything else.

Zenith is right up there with them. What do some of you think about reliability or quality.

I have a 49-905 that i got for $5. The case is OK and the chassis is even better. I recapped it and now have a dead radio due to a bad IF transformer. Maybe that ratty chassis has the right part for it. Or maybe mine has parts yours needs:scratch2: Usually this means only one gets restored.

Just a mental block I'll have to get past :)

Depends on what you like to do. I like the challenge of a basket case, cabinet falling apart, needs veneer, etc. Chassis can always be cleaned, painted, recapped and rewired unless a torpedo has gone through the irreplaceable RF coils. But of course it has to be a radio I'm interested in.

Well, this is good to hear; in a way. But what should we do? I would like to buy your chassis and simply install my hopefully good IF transformer. On the flip, I am sure that you would like to buy my set with a great case and the needed transformer.

I would part with my set, but I don't really want to 'part it out'. What to do...:scratch2:

that isnt rough.i once went to cleveland for a zenith 7s363.it was in a walkout basement.nice people but the radio fell apart when i lifted it.chassis was covered with thick,red rust.wiring was gone and the only part that wasnt really damaged the speaker.it was almost pristine.i gathered it all up and spent about a week on it.came out very nice.as long as all the parts are there,it aint rough

WOW! I guess some folks just have the willpower, craftsmanship, and equipment to take on such a labor of love! I would have took off running. I guess I am more of a caretaker, displayer, user, and/or repairer, but have far different limitations as do many of us I'm sure.

I always have had a huge respect for what I call natural born engineers who can and will create whatever is needed to recreate things. My next door neighbor is one of these people and it just amazes me. And to think that a lot of people think I am a wiz at fixing things. I'm not too bad I guess, but I was in the military and have a bit of dislike for tattered and simply worn out things, so I target my collecting at things that need only minor cosmetic repair. The electrical part interests me greatly, but if wiring and all is gone I just draw the line.

I've worked on several basket case sets, my only rule of thumb is to make sure it's something I actually like enough to want to keep it in the first place. My thinking is, if it's rough, I likely won't be able to sell it so what have I got to loose? I've repaired bakelite cases by gluing in wire mesh or screen, and then filling the missing pieces in with bondo body filler. I ended up with a 30s Coronado with a fairly nice case, but somebody removed the power/IF transformers and the tuning cap, I had basically an empty chassis. I found a speaker, power transformer, and volume control from my junk parts pile, and got it to where I have a working amp. There have been a few others that I started in on, then used for parts when another one in better condition came along.

On the Philco in question, I would definitely keep the good case and find another chassis, or try to clean up the old one for the short term until a nicer one comes along. Also keep in mind that Philco used the same basic chassis in several sets, I've seen other table sets with the same basic configuration as yours, as well as several consoles with the same basic knob layout. In fact, I have a console chassis you can have if you want. There might be some changes to the tube lineup or to the dial pointer, but the basic sheet metal stamping and circuit is the same. Also, it's been my experience that chassis seem to hold up better than cabinets, so it's easier to find a parts set with a good chassis and broken cabinet than the other way around.

Depends on the rarity and value of the set, too. I'm more likely to keep a basket case that was a really nice radio. I may never get to it myself, but once parted out, you can't put it back together very easily. I have one Wells Gardner console that has a plywood cabinet with a lot of cool details but it's all delaminating from moisture damage. The chassis is beautiful though. For the moment they're still together. I should try to post a pic.

Somehow I acquired two Philco 70 speakers with open field coils. Always intended to buy a mile of #42 magnet wire or whatever it is and re-wind them. I actually don't have a Philco 70 to put either of them into at the moment. :smoke:

Some of that series of speakers are very hard to remove the field coil. 42 is too small.

Hehehehe... I remember a story somebody told here before they split AK & VK... This guy loaded up a rather RARE 1930s "High-Boy" console set from a barn in his van.. He & his bud lit out back home, & before they got too far, the van was full of rather ANGRY Waspers... There was a pretty good sized nest inside the radio...I think they both got stung a time or 2.. THAT would sorta ruin the rest of yr day...

I was looking at this poor H500, this is really rough :yes: The question was "did you find this at the bottom of a lake"?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...258d9a137a98ff

Looks like years in a flooded basement. I would definitely call that too rough and field strip it. I really wish that we had a forum specifically for people with chassis and parts that they want to sell. Of course there would have to be the criteria of a known model number and make that a part came from and/or a picture as sometimes a model is not known and others here could help identify.

Any administrators and/or members like this idea?

Perhaps just a list of parts available and a list of parts needed--which hopefully wouldn't require much administration.

You know we do need that. On AK there's an Orphan Speaker Bingo thread. How about an Orphan Radio Chassis thread?