How rough is too rough?

[Tubejunke]

Just wondering what different people's standards are on condition. Where do you draw the line between keeping a set for the collection and display after taking the time and money to get it going and simply parting out, donating or discarding.

The thought came to mind as lately I remembered that I had put a 1949 Philco AM-FM Bakelite set out in the shed that had a decent cabinet but a roached chassis. When I say roached I usually mean rusted chassis which usually comes with frayed wiring. Both likely the results of mice making homes inside at some point in time, maybe decades.

I have figured out also that chassis in this condition hardly ever work as is, where as sets in better condition do. Sets in better condition I would say were kept in some sort of climate controlled environment or at least dry. Now I must say that I have a few sets that do happen to work that for whatever reason have developed a few rust spots which I try to clean up and use whatever rust deterrent chemical I may have on hand such as Naval Jelly and like products.

Now with this Philco I am not sure what to do as the cabinet is almost perfect with the ratty chassis. I wonder if I could find a decent chassis somewhere. That would be the thing to do, but it may be hard to find just a chassis somewhere and I don't want to buy a complete other radio to fix one in my shed. For the sake of the hopeful thread I will ad that if somehow I get a set that is beat up on the outside and the inside, but complete; I will try to donate it to a thrift store hoping maybe someone will make a few bucks and maybe it (the radio) and the money will go to good homes.

[Winky Dink]

Too rough.



This Radiola 16 is only missing one knob. The cabinet is hopeless, but I'll save it for parts. The chassis is rusty and full of wasp nests (mud daubers). I wouldn't restore it without a cabinet, but the parts are worth saving, especially if they can be used in similar Radiola models.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

The thought came to mind as lately I remembered that I had put a 1949 Philco AM-FM Bakelite set out in the shed that had a decent cabinet but a roached chassis.

Model 49-905 or 49-906?

IMHO, all early FM radios are quite collectable... If the cabinet is in good condition, I would polish it up, clean the chassis as well as possible and make it a "shelf queen" until you can find a better chassis or decide to restore the one you have. Having a *good* Bakelite cabinet is way more than half the battle.

Gallery of Philco radios... notice how few pre-1950 FM models were in the Philco line:
http://www.philcoradio.com/gallery/index.htm

I have a B956 (1954)... decent sounding, but not a great DX radio by today's standards.

jr

[Kamakiri]

I picked up a beat up and incomplete Philco 70 cathedral at a local radio swap recently for $20. I have no idea why, other than the fact that it was cheap. No speaker, and as you can see, the arch top was cut for some reason

Debated what to do with it, but I figured what the heck, I'll test tubes, throw some new filter caps and the bypass caps I could get to (without doing the bakelite blocks ), see if I could locate a speaker, and find out if the old gal had any life.

I managed to pick up a Philco 70 console speaker on ebay for $10 plus shipping, replaced 2 tubes, did the caps as mentioned above, and what do you know, the son of a gun works!!!

So here I have an abused yet working 70. Now what?

I didn't want to really put any money into it, and figured that I could just mount the oversize speaker inside a small stand that the radio would sit on, and make an arch top out of something and use it.

But then I thought....wait a minute. If I Rube Goldberg this set now, some future collector is going to get their hands on this set and curse the day I was born in the same way I'd do that with someone that barn-jobbed something that I wanted to restore.

I decided to re-glue all of the loose but complete veneer on the speaker grille, and repair a missing chunk in the top right with a section from the side. Didn't turn out too bad so far. Still have to give it a coat of Howards. I'll end up buying a repro arch top from that guy that makes repro Philco cases, and eventually find the correct speaker. And then I'll have a really nice 70! Or at least decent

The moral of the story: even if it's pretty far gone, whatever you do, just keep in mind that we're but a step in the set's journey.

[Username1]

Look at it all as a way to improve all your skills..... Everyone here has attacked some
area of restoration that another person has not ever had to deal with... I feel like
someone from another planet when it comes to identifying or working with most woods.
Working on that cabinet would be the thing for me.... I would need it. I remember looking at
a 21CT55 I think on a seperate website where the cabinet was in need of complete off-frame
restoration.... I was to say the least, quite amazed at the result. I think the more work
that needs to be done, the more amazing it is when it's done.....

Good luck to you..

I have a 1932 GE floor radio with doors, the radio was replaced with a SC model 60 Works, but
the cabinet needs some real work, I had it since I was 14. One year I'm gunna attack it, it also needs a
wooden knob, same one on a lot of SC model 60's I have seen, so I'm sure the knobs are not from
the original cabinet, but from the replacement radio guts.....

.

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Model 49-905 or 49-906?

IMHO, all early FM radios are quite collectable... Having a *good* Bakelite cabinet is way more than half the battle.

Actually, it's a 49-906-121 AM-FM. The cabinet is made of plastic unfortunately, but looks great. I just don't know how something this nice could be so darned rusty. Some places no rust at all and then trails of rust going all the way across half of the speaker.

One thing interesting to me is that it has two on/off potentiometers. I haven't investigated yet what they do. Maybe some tech used a switchable pot where just a pot was needed. Obviously I haven't had the chassis out of the cabinet to see if there is wiring going to both switches.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

Actually, it's a 49-906-121 AM-FM. The cabinet is made of plastic unfortunately, but looks great.

I am fairly certain that the set is bakelite, although I have seen it identified as thermo-plastic. Easy to tell with a slightly destructive "melt test" in an inconspicuous area.

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

I just don't know how something this nice could be so darned rusty. Some places no rust at all and then trails of rust going all the way across half of the speaker.

Stuff happens, perhaps mouse pee?

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

One thing interesting to me is that it has two on/off potentiometers. I haven't investigated yet what they do. Maybe some tech used a switchable pot where just a pot was needed. Obviously I haven't had the chassis out of the cabinet to see if there is wiring going to both switches.

Seems likely, there is *no* reason to have a switch on *both* the tone (where it would be in this model) and volume controls.

jr

[Tubejunke]

This URL gives the specs for the radio: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_49_906.html.

To quote them, the material is "Modern plastics (no Bakelite or Catalin)." But that doesn't make or break my decision. I'm going to try a little CLR on the rust, although I know there are better products. It's what I happen to have.

[Electronic M]

My decision point is not enough cabinet left to rebuild/remake, chassis rusted through such that important mountings are compromised or missing parts not worth looking for or buying. This is for very rare/desirable sets as the set in question moves towards dirt common/undesirable smaller things can be cause for execution, though I hate to destroy a set over something doable, and like a good challenge/practice candidate to potentially mess up while learning.

@Kamakiri: Why do block capacitors bug you? They are my favorite to rebuild. All you need to do is unsloder / unbolt making note of which wires go where. Look up the number to ascertain the contents. On the black tar type just chip the tar and old caps out with a screw driver (it is astonishingly easy, and can be done in <30 sec once practiced). Fish the new cap leads through the rivets to the terminals. Then bolt the sucker back in and reconnect the leads.

[Tubejunke]

That Cathedral that Kamakiri has is almost identical to a Silvertone that I have. I know a lot of them were similar, but this is again nearly identical; even the chassis layout looks the same.

I know that Sears, who sold Silvertone, always had stuff made by major manufacturers and had their name stamped on it. I wonder if Philco did their Silvertone radios of that era.

[Tubejunke]

Since this thread started with a Philco and there had been other mention of them, I just wanted to ad that Philco radios are just about the most reliable old radios there are. I have more of them working un-restored than most anything else.

Zenith is right up there with them. What do some of you think about reliability or quality.

[DavGoodlin]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

Actually, it's a 49-906-121 AM-FM. The cabinet is made of plastic unfortunately, but looks great. I just don't know how something this nice could be so darned rusty. Some places no rust at all and then trails of rust going all the way across half of the speaker.

One thing interesting to me is that it has two on/off potentiometers. I haven't investigated yet what they do. Maybe some tech used a switchable pot where just a pot was needed. Obviously I haven't had the chassis out of the cabinet to see if there is wiring going to both switches.

I have a 49-905 that i got for $5. The case is OK and the chassis is even better. I recapped it and now have a dead radio due to a bad IF transformer. Maybe that ratty chassis has the right part for it. Or maybe mine has parts yours needs Usually this means only one gets restored.

[Kamakiri]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

@Kamakiri: Why do block capacitors bug you? They are my favorite to rebuild. All you need to do is unsloder / unbolt making note of which wires go where. Look up the number to ascertain the contents. On the black tar type just chip the tar and old caps out with a screw driver (it is astonishingly easy, and can be done in <30 sec once practiced). Fish the new cap leads through the rivets to the terminals. Then bolt the sucker back in and reconnect the leads.

Just a mental block I'll have to get past

[Reece]

Depends on what you like to do. I like the challenge of a basket case, cabinet falling apart, needs veneer, etc. Chassis can always be cleaned, painted, recapped and rewired unless a torpedo has gone through the irreplaceable RF coils. But of course it has to be a radio I'm interested in.

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by DavGoodlin

I have a 49-905 that i got for $5. The case is OK and the chassis is even better. I recapped it and now have a dead radio due to a bad IF transformer. Maybe that ratty chassis has the right part for it. Or maybe mine has parts yours needs Usually this means only one gets restored.

Well, this is good to hear; in a way. But what should we do? I would like to buy your chassis and simply install my hopefully good IF transformer. On the flip, I am sure that you would like to buy my set with a great case and the needed transformer.

I would part with my set, but I don't really want to 'part it out'. What to do...