RTN Gone!!!

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by wa2ise

I see that RTN appears on some DirecTV and Dish network satellite channels. Which would mean this signal is sprayed all across the country. Or do they have some mechanism to deny RTN from some satellite subscribers? I'm pretty much a died-in-the-wool OTA TV watcher...

RTN may be distributed nationwide via satellite; however, my point was that the network is not carried everywhere on OTA television stations or cable systems, which leaves a very large part of the US without access to the channel. Case in point: Here in Ohio, there is presently only one RTN affiliate, in Toledo (northwestern part of the state). The station, and its digital subchannel, is carried on cable and is available OTA in Toledo, of course, but no one else in Ohio can see RTN except via satellite.

This situation exists elsewhere in the country as well, even in large cities such as New York City (America's #1 media market) and Chicago, so it is not unique to one region. There is no excuse, IMHO, for RTN not to be carried on cable in New York, and the greater Chicago area is large enough as well that it could support an RTN affiliate on one of its big network-operated stations' digital subchannels. As it stands at the moment, the nearest RTN affiliate to Chicago is in Rockford, according to the network's affiliate map. It is entirely possible that Chicago-area cable systems could be importing RTN from a digital subchannel in Rockford or elsewhere.

I do not think, however, that the foregoing would be possible or even legal in Ohio under FCC rules, since the nearest RTN affiliate to Cleveland, as I mentioned, is over 100 miles away--and cable systems in major metropolitan areas are likely forbidden to carry cable channels from that distance, unless the station involved is an affiliate of a major network and the cable system serves an area that receives few or no local stations. The only way I can see every cable system here carrying RTN would be for the systems to pick up the raw satellite feed from RTN itself and distributing it over the cable systems' own facilities.

RTN states on its web site that it is always adding affiliates, but I have seen very little evidence of that lately, according to their affiliate map. Perhaps their thinking is that anyone outside the local broadcast range of an RTN affiliate will be receiving it on cable or satellite, so why even bother adding new stations? If this is in fact their rationale, they really should not, IMHO, state so boldly that they are always adding new stations. From what I've seen so far on the affiliate map, this isn't so, or else the network is adding affiliates so slowly it isn't funny.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

<smip> RTN states on its web site that it is always adding affiliates, but I have seen very little evidence of that lately, according to their affiliate map. Perhaps their thinking is that anyone outside the local broadcast range of an RTN affiliate will be receiving it on cable or satellite, so why even bother adding new stations? If this is in fact their rationale, they really should not, IMHO, state so boldly that they are always adding new stations. From what I've seen so far on the affiliate map, this isn't so, or else the network is adding affiliates so slowly it isn't funny.

My guess that the bankruptcy of Equity Media made it difficult for RTN to sign up new affiliates.

I also suspect that there is an unwritten dictate not to develop subchannels on commercial stations in the Cleveland market. WEWS has no subchannels, even though co-owned (and also ABC affiliate) WXYZ Detroit has two (RTN on 7.2 and local weather loop on 7.3). WUAB had The Tube, but, since that service went bust, their 43.2 has been running a still graphic (announcing that The Tube is no longer available) for 15 months now! This in a market where the PBS (WVIZ) DT had (until very recently) been transmitting a totally inadequate 1kW at 30m. I would have though that the main WVIZ stream would have made a very good fill-in on 43.2. Another wasted opportunity is WQHS. It has no subchannel, but I have never seen any HD programming on it. Why not put co-owned Telefutura on 61.2?

Rob

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Robert Grant

My guess that the bankruptcy of Equity Media made it difficult for RTN to sign up new affiliates.

I also suspect that there is an unwritten dictate not to develop subchannels on commercial stations in the Cleveland market. Rob

Why should Cleveland be any different from any other city in the country where DTV subchannels are concerned? Where is it written that Cleveland cannot have subchannel programming on its existing seven TV channels? I have lived in northeastern Ohio my entire life, and have never heard of any such statute.

IMHO, there should be no restrictions in Cleveland as to what subchannels can be piggybacked onto the city's existing stations' main signals. Cleveland should have the opportunity to have DTV subchannels if the stations agree to it and can afford it. The city has been made fun of and maligned far too much already in the last 40 years (and it continues to this day). Keeping its TV stations from having DTV subchannels when other cities, yes, including Detroit, has had them for some time, doesn't make sense to me.

I honestly don't know where you get your information. How do you know so much about Cleveland television, anyway, when you live in Michigan? Did you live in the Cleveland/northeast Ohio area and/or work in TV in the area at one time?

The lack of RTN and other subchannels on Cleveland's commercial TV channels will, IMHO, just boost the sales of DVDs and DVD players in northeastern Ohio, as more viewers turn to DVDs to watch their favorite old classic shows. I am just about ready to downgrade my cable service to basic myself (I currently have Time Warner expanded basic cable), watching DVDs for other programming. As it is, I watch very little broadcast TV these days, instead watching DVDs of the old shows of the '70s I grew up with; in fact, I have a small collection of DVDs and VHS tapes of such programs as Quincy, Kojak, The Odd Couple, and more (I am adding more DVDs from time to time as well). I don't think I would miss the extra channels in the expanded basic package at all.

I don't care for the idea, either, of the FCC toying with the idea of yet again pushing back the digital transition date, as I read in a blog on an industry website (Broadcasting and Cable) the other day. First it was 2006, now it's mid-February 2009 . . . what next? It almost makes me think that the FCC isn't that serious about the transition after all. IMHO, they just want to keep people well off balance about the issue, and give the news media more to gossip about.

However, the same blog that mentioned the FCC's plan to again delay the digital transition also mentioned that it is actually too late to do so now. Too much money has been invested in PSAs (public service announcements) and runners across the screen during network shows intended to educate the viewing public about DTV and the transition [including stressing the fact that analog TV will end for good on 02.17.09], too much work and expense has gone into equipping the nation's analog TV stations for digital (the stations' owners are probably facing huge electricity bills at this time because of having to power two high-power TV transmitters at the same time, antenna/tower/transmitter maintenance for two stations, et al.), and so forth. I sincerely hope the digital transition occurs on 02.17 so we can get this over with, once and for all.

Sheeeesh . . . Good grief.

[Carmine]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

As it is, I watch very little broadcast TV these days, instead watching DVDs of the old shows of the '70s I grew up with; in fact, I have a small collection of DVDs and VHS tapes of such programs as Quincy, Kojak, The Odd Couple, and more (I am adding more DVDs from time to time as well). I don't think I would miss the extra channels in the expanded basic package at all.

However, the same blog that mentioned the FCC's plan to again delay the digital transition also mentioned that it is actually too late to do so now. Too much money has been invested in PSAs (public service announcements) and runners across the screen during network shows intended to educate the viewing public about DTV and the transition [including stressing the fact that analog TV will end for good on 02.17.09], too much work and expense has gone into equipping the nation's analog TV stations for digital (the stations' owners are probably facing huge electricity bills at this time because of having to power two high-power TV transmitters at the same time, antenna/tower/transmitter maintenance for two stations, et al.), and so forth. I sincerely hope the digital transition occurs on 02.17 so we can get this over with, once and for all.

Sheeeesh . . . Good grief.

Oh boo hoo! A months salary from an overpaid-talking-news-head could probably pay the electric bill for a year, or the money they get "serving" the public with colon-cleanser infomercials. If their business model is so bad that the lost ad revenue from PSA's kills them, they were dying anyways.

We know you love your Time-Warner cable. But guess what? The whole world doesn't want to subscribe to some shit-ass cable service, or have to be tethered to a cable box. I don't sit around and "dedicate" time to watch DVDs either... Sometimes I just like to have the TV on in the background while I do other things... The way McCloud is on right now as I type this. It's also the way I find new things to enjoy, not just buying things I've already heard of.

Plenty of people facing tough times and lost jobs right now, so I don't have much use for guaranteeing a revenue stream for a bunch of cable-companies and Chinese crap manufacturers looking to fill landfills with functional products.

I'm not going to cry if digital takes off, but I'll probably enjoy a good chuckle if the whole bomb blows up in the government-mandated face.

[bgadow]

Carmine, please, it's not good for you to hold back like this...let go, tell us how you really feel

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Carmine

Oh boo hoo! A months salary from an overpaid-talking-news-head could probably pay the electric bill for a year, or the money they get "serving" the public with colon-cleanser infomercials. If their business model is so bad that the lost ad revenue from PSA's kills them, they were dying anyways.

We know you love your Time-Warner cable. But guess what? The whole world doesn't want to subscribe to some shit-ass cable service, or have to be tethered to a cable box. I don't sit around and "dedicate" time to watch DVDs either... Sometimes I just like to have the TV on in the background while I do other things... The way McCloud is on right now as I type this. It's also the way I find new things to enjoy, not just buying things I've already heard of.

Plenty of people facing tough times and lost jobs right now, so I don't have much use for guaranteeing a revenue stream for a bunch of cable-companies and Chinese crap manufacturers looking to fill landfills with functional products.

I'm not going to cry if digital takes off, but I'll probably enjoy a good chuckle if the whole bomb blows up in the government-mandated face.

I know the feeling, myself, I'm going through rough times, being unemployed for a while but I did find a good job delivering auto parts. Auto parts and mechanics are doing quite well, people are keeping their old cars. Still, I have to crawl out of the hole. I also do free lance web design, I want to get out of the business but a few people depend on me so I keep it on life support. A lot of times I don't have time for DVD's either so many times I have my ATSC box turned on using a Commodore 1702 monitor as a TV in the computer room. It's nice to have RTN on, I like McCloud, Air Wolf and so on. BTW, it seems like three quarters of the shows, were produced or made by Donald Bellasario, Glen Larson or both, it should be called the Bellasario/Larson Channel but I still love it. I see shows there I haven't seen in a while, I always loved "Voyagers!"

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Why should Cleveland be any different from any other city in the country where DTV subchannels are concerned? Where is it written that Cleveland cannot have subchannel programming on its existing seven TV channels? I have lived in northeastern Ohio my entire life, and have never heard of any such statute.

IMHO, there should be no restrictions in Cleveland as to what subchannels can be piggybacked onto the city's existing stations' main signals. Cleveland should have the opportunity to have DTV subchannels if the stations agree to it and can afford it. The city has been made fun of and maligned far too much already in the last 40 years (and it continues to this day). Keeping its TV stations from having DTV subchannels when other cities, yes, including Detroit, has had them for some time, doesn't make sense to me.

I honestly don't know where you get your information. How do you know so much about Cleveland television, anyway, when you live in Michigan?

Did you live in the Cleveland/northeast Ohio area and/or work in TV in the area at one time?

The lack of RTN and other subchannels on Cleveland's commercial TV channels will, IMHO, just boost the sales of DVDs and DVD players in northeastern Ohio, as more viewers turn to DVDs to watch their favorite old classic shows. I am just about ready to downgrade my cable service to basic myself (I currently have Time Warner expanded basic cable), watching DVDs for other programming. As it is, I watch very little broadcast TV these days, instead watching DVDs of the old shows of the '70s I grew up with; in fact, I have a small collection of DVDs and VHS tapes of such programs as Quincy, Kojak, The Odd Couple, and more (I am adding more DVDs from time to time as well). I don't think I would miss the extra channels in the expanded basic package at all.
<snip>

Sheeeesh . . . Good grief.

The Cleveland TV stations are regular visitors to Southeast Michigan during the summer. Troposperic refraction develops easily over Lake Erie, and the high terrain of Parma is close enough the lake that nothing in Cleveland Proper disrupts the path.
I would say that WEWS-DT (the most reliable) is in more than half of the time from May through early September.

I've also observed the subchannels of all the Cleveland stations using my portable DTV rig. I go to Richfield on a almost-monthly basis (has to do with another hobby I have).


The "dictate" would have nothing to do with the FCC, and would take the form of a "gentlemens' agreement" (in ironic euphemism) between various media interests. Exactly who would not want subchannels in Cleveland, I can't specualte.