Any roundies in Canada?

[electroking]

Does anyone own a Canadian market color TV set with circular CRT?
I would like to see that!

[Electrohome]

I haven't seen anyone with a Canadian made color roundie. However, Electrohome had color 21-inch round-tube color TVs in it's 1964-65 line of TV sets as well as a couple of other TV manufacterers in Canada as well. These Canadian color roundies are very, very difficult to find. If I see any Canadian color roundies, I would post them here for sure if I see any.

[Robert Grant]

If I were to expect anyone to find a roundie in Canada, it would almost have to be quite close to the border.

Something I only learned recently: Canadian TV stations were forbidden to broadcast in color until 1966 (country #2 in color TV was Cuba!). Speculation has it that color was kept off the market to spare stations the cost of upgrading their equipment to compete (like the 1960-1983 AM stereo ban in the US).

Of course, when color TV just exploded in the US in the fall of 1965, it was about face, lest the CBC and CTV lose all their viewers to colorful American stations (much like Detroit talked about casinos for 30 years, but only got them after Windsor built theirs).

[Tom_Ryan]

Originally Posted by Robert Grant

If I were to expect anyone to find a roundie in Canada, it would almost have to be quite close to the border.

Something I only learned recently: Canadian TV stations were forbidden to broadcast in color until 1966 (country #2 in color TV was Cuba!). Speculation has it that color was kept off the market to spare stations the cost of upgrading their equipment to compete (like the 1960-1983 AM stereo ban in the US).

Of course, when color TV just exploded in the US in the fall of 1965, it was about face, lest the CBC and CTV lose all their viewers to colorful American stations (much like Detroit talked about casinos for 30 years, but only got them after Windsor built theirs).

Here's an interesting video clip from the CBC archives. The date was September 1966:

http://archives.cbc.ca/arts_entertai...cs/1631-11239/

The broadcasts originated on Channel 4, CBC in Ottawa (Canada's capital).

[electroking]

Thanks for this interesting feedback! I would believe, however, that setting up
color studios and transmitters, even with existing monochrome facilities, would
take a bit more than a year of planning and actual technical work, so I doubt
the green light for transition to color in Canada came so late as 1966. If
Robert Grant could cite a reference for what he claims, I would appreciate. Regards.

P.S. : my household did not get a color set (a 15-inch Toshiba that is still thriving
in the kitchen) until March, 1977.

[Aussie Bloke]

Very interesting post, great to see the news report video on the beginning of colour on CBC in Canada.

I wonder if the CBC used RCA TK-41s in the beginning of colour broadcasting?

[Tom_Ryan]

I did some checking and found that the history of the television broadcast industry in Canada shows a great deal of entrepreneurial spirit. The following link is a rather candid account of events from the late 1950's to the present:

http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/i...elevision.html

However, I think the above account leaves out some extraordinary facts - all political. Prior to 1987, Canada was a Dominion of Great Britain, all private television stations were required to follow the operating practices of the CBC, collectively called the Dominion and Transcanada Networks - that included all private affiliates. Not exactly what you would call free enterprise, but controlled enterprsie ...perhaps even socialist. In other words, unlike the good'ol USA at that time - the political and constitutional laws were not in place in Canada until approx the 1970's to allow private stations to take a leadership position to introduce new technologies. Additional information is also available from the CBC archives. Here's an interesting URL for reference:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/compa...y-History.html

[Greg B.]

Originally Posted by Tom_Ryan

I did some checking and found that the history of the television broadcast industry in Canada shows a great deal of entrepreneurial spirit.

Probably true in the early years. Ironically, since the advent of cable, the opposite has proven true. The federal regulator (CRTC) has taken as its mandate not to allow any large Canadian broadcast/cable entity to fail, by ensuring that consumers are forced to pay for any number of things they do not want. This is similar to the situation in the USA but it seems worse here. Some of the Canadian specialty channels, which are typically bundled into groups of 5 or 6 that you are forced to buy if you conclude that one channel is worth the price, have so few viewers that their ratings are literally zero.

However, I think the above account leaves out some extraordinary facts - all political. Prior to 1987, Canada was a Dominion of Great Britain, all private television stations were required to follow the operating practices of the CBC, collectively called the Dominion and Transcanada Networks - that included all private affiliates. Not exactly what you would call free enterprise, but controlled enterprsie ...perhaps even socialist. In other words, unlike the good'ol USA at that time - the political and constitutional laws were not in place in Canada until approx the 1970's to allow private stations to take a leadership position to introduce new technologies. Additional information is also available from the CBC archives. Here's an interesting URL for reference:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/compa...y-History.html

You lost me here. There were no constitutional changes in 1987 that I am aware of, and I believe you have misunderstood something you have read somewhere regarding what went on at broadcasters at that time.

The CRTC has always controlled broadcasting here with an iron hand. They have innumerable rules, most of which are designed to protect broadcasters and the Canadian "cultural industry" -- producers of Canadian TV shows that generally fail to gain much of an audience, despite being highly subsidized by both taxpayers and cable customers. It is also important when discussing the CBC to distinguish between CBC Radio, which has a strong following, and the TV side, which is largely irrelevant (and as a result, always controversial in terms of public funding) to most Canadians, except for news and Hockey Night In Canada.

Back to the essential point of the post: if there are roundies to be found in Canada, the most likely place to find them would be southern Ontario. In the pre-cable days of the 1960s it was common practice to point your rooftop antennas towards Buffalo or Detroit to pick up US stations, which were not only broadcasting in color, but which also aired popular programs not available on Canadian TV.

[Tom_Ryan]

Yep, it's easy to get lost in history. Dates were never my strong suit. I meant to say 1982. So, no muss no fuss. The point that Canada had dependence on Great Britain as a Dominion until 1982, impacted culture and legislation, only much later would it be seen as the strong arm of the CRTC for broadcasters. The main reason there was no color broadcasting in Canada prior to Sept 1966 was because the Federal government of the Dominion was expected to foot the bill for conversion. When Lester B Pearson became Prime Minister in 1963 he helped sway Senate approval for funding, of course, it did not happen over night. If you read through my references, I understand that this amount was about $15 Million in 1966 to get color launched in the September of that year. The motivation was political. Canada had won the honor of hosting the 1967 World Expo in Montreal, so Canada was under some pressure to foot the bill and get color launched. It's important to recall that Canadian consumers were not clamoring for expensive $750 color TVs made in the USA, perhaps rich Canadians may have living near a US city. Back then Canada had no free trade with the US on imported consumer electronics. There were tariffs on imported tv sets to help Canadian TV set makers supply local demand. In addition, Canadian manufactures were not being offered tax incentives for building color TV sets that they couldn't sell.

Of course, you're right ...RF signals tend to ignore international borders, especially line of site transmitters on tall communication towers. So, the proximity of cross border signals would make say, Windsor-Detroit area a good place to look for roundies. Toronto or Hamilton with signals propagating over Lake Ontario from Rochester, and the there's Vancouver being close to Seattle. Montreal could be a possibility too. My guess would be to look in large estates of well-to-do professionals or the wealthy to find such gems today.

[zenith porthole]

In my fifteen or so years of tv collecting, I have only seen one color roundie locally. It was an American Zenith that had been left out in the rain for a long time. In the early 60's, Windsor was a largely a blue collar town trying to crawl out of the recession created by Ford's move to Oakville in 1954. Most of what I have seen are boring, cheap 21" b&w sets.

[electroking]

Don't want to contradict anyone about history, but the constitutional change of
1982 was merely cosmetic: bringing the power to amend the constitution in
the hands of the Canadian parliament alone. In practice, Canada had been
a fully sovereing state since the Westminster Statute of 1931, and on the
other hand, the Sovereing of Great Britain (currently Queen Elizateth II) remains
the Canadian Head of State.

Regarding private TV (and Radio) in Canada, those have long existed, with
the rather stiff regulatory framework already mentioned, and with in particular
a rule that forbids majority foreing ownership. This may sound funny, but
on the other hand I don't think any major U.S. broadcaster has significant
foreing ownership either. Regards.

[Tom_Ryan]

Originally Posted by electroking

Don't want to contradict anyone about history, but the constitutional change of
1982 was merely cosmetic: bringing the power to amend the constitution in
the hands of the Canadian parliament alone. In practice, Canada had been
a fully sovereing state since the Westminster Statute of 1931, and on the
other hand, the Sovereing of Great Britain (currently Queen Elizateth II) remains
the Canadian Head of State.

Regarding private TV (and Radio) in Canada, those have long existed, with
the rather stiff regulatory framework already mentioned, and with in particular
a rule that forbids majority foreing ownership. This may sound funny, but
on the other hand I don't think any major U.S. broadcaster has significant
foreing ownership either. Regards.

Yea right, tell that to the people of Quebec and see what happens! Let there be no doubt, Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau would decisively disagree that changes to the Canadian constitution in 1982 were merely "cosmetic". French Canadian language and cultural rights were not protected by the Westminster Statute of 1931. So, the victory of repatriation in 1982 is much more than cosmetic. Today, the Governor General is the Queen's representative in Canada and simply a figure head tying Canada to the Commonwealth Nations ... a throw back to the British Empire ...another ball and chain. In 1929, the Royal Commission on Broadcasting (the Aird Commission) noted it was in the "the national interest" to ensure that Canada's cultural identity is reflected in the radio programming available to Canadians. This led to the creation of what was to become the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC), and marked the beginning of the "great cultural experiment" to preserve Canada's unique cultural identity. This cultural experiment would evolve over time to touch upon many of Canada's cultural activities - broadcasting, music, film and video production, publishing and, more recently, multi-media.

However, throughout it all, Canada's cultural policies have been at the center of controversy. Some, like the C.D. Howe Institute, argue that a freer market for cultural products will provide incentives for Canadian culture producers to create and profit from their work. Others, like Canadian poet Rosemary Sullivan, believe that government grants for small presses, local theaters and new Canadian artists are essential to nurturing Canadian voices and preserving Canadian stories.

The pressures of global trade and new technologies have exacerbated the tensions, but in many ways, they are just new twists on the continuing debate about the vitality of Canadian culture.

Canadian Content regulations (Cancon) require television and radio stations to play a certain amount of domestic programming. The Cancon rules are established under the Broadcasting Act and enforced by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) as a condition of licensing for broadcasters. The CRTC also enforces provisions in the Broadcasting Act and Telecommunications Act which restrict foreign ownership in broadcasting and telecommunications enterprises to 20 per cent as a condition of licensing.

Foreign investment rules under the Investment Canada Act prohibit foreign acquisitions of Canadian publishing companies; and also restrict foreign companies from distributing films unless they hold worldwide distribution rights or have invested at least 50 per cent of the production costs. Most private broadcasters have the good sense to always honour the minimum CRTC Canadian content requirements. There are some exceptions, but generally private TV stations must make sure that 60 per cent of their programming measured over an entire year is Canadian, including at least half the shows between 6 p.m. and midnight. Quantity isn't the problem; it's how the commercial operators reach the quota.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the early years of television broadcasting in Canada and an understanding of how color broadcasting started and the role of American broadcasters here's a great book that provides a ton of details:

Canadian Television Policy and the Board of Broadcast Governors, 1958-1968 by William H. N. Hull, Andrew Stewart. 364 pgs.

While I mentioned before that most major Canadian cities affiliated with a nearby US city may be a good place to start looking for roundies. I also bet that Canadian broadcasters were probably experimenting with color since the 1950's. It's possible that a stash of color sets and service parts maybe hidden away in some warehouse owned by the CBC or some other affiliate, long forgotten in some dusty corner. Well, it's a nice dream ... and given the frequency of CT-100's showing up on ...you guess where these days, it just might happen.