Any interest in *new* 16AP4's?

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by Einar72

Chris,

Try this:

http://www.alibaba.com/member/fr101022520.html

Thanks, Einar! I appreciate your help.

[Kiwick]

Originally Posted by uxwbill

I fear that I will live long enough to see a day when these restored TVs will need to have parts replaced that simply don't exist, and possibly cannot be made. Then their very existence will be in danger...not many people have the desire to keep a "useless" object around their house.

vintage TVs will become unusable objects in the not so distant future anyway... come to think of it, after the DTV transition the only sources of analog video are junk disposable chinese DTV boxes that usually fail within a few years and are likely going to become unavailable soon, the same goes for DVD players and even vintage VCRs have a limited lifespan due to aging and wear of unobtainium rubber parts and video heads

[miniman82]

Not true, my DVR has coax VHF output to channel 3. Even if at some point that goes away, there will always be a way to put a signal to these sets. There's the composite input option going straight to the video amplifier tube, for example.

[uxwbill]

Originally Posted by Kiwick

vintage TVs will become unusable objects in the not so distant future anyway... come to think of it, after the DTV transition the only sources of analog video are junk disposable chinese DTV boxes that usually fail within a few years and are likely going to become unavailable soon, the same goes for DVD players and even vintage VCRs have a limited lifespan due to aging and wear of unobtainium rubber parts and video heads

I disagree with that. Personal experience with my Zenith DTT-901 converter indicates that it is a very cool running converter box. LG/Zenith even went so far as to punch vent holes in the case. I've only known one converter that runs hot, and that's the Apex Digital model that uses a Zoran processor.

Analog cable TV is still out there in many places, and the output of something like a digital cable box or satellite TV tuner could even be videotaped (or recorded digitally) to be played back on an older set.

Many things that might go wrong with an old TV can certainly be repaired...worn plastics, damaged cabinets, broken integrated circuits...even if the replacements have to be fabricated. That's all a matter of dedication to the cause. Making a picture tube is a much taller order.

I'm not even sure how the life of a picture tube in a vintage TV compares to a newer one. Are these old picture tubes really short-lived by comparision to a modern one? Or should they be every bit as reliable (provided they hold vacuum) in a properly functioning restored set as the tube in a more modern set?

[miniman82]

They are very stable, so long as the vacuum is maintained. The 15" color sets at the ETF have been operating for years, and their CRT's are still pretty bright. I only flip my CT-100 on for a couple of minutes a week to watch it, so it should last many years. It's the sets that get left on for weeks at a time that don't last, the guns eventually wear out from use.

[jhalphen]

Good Day Gentlemen,

I've just come back from spending 3 days at the RACS plant with Nick & the Raedersdorff brothers, owners of the company.

The plant is located 500 miles from Paris (where i live) and in southern France near the town of Nimes.

Some thoughts after my visit as to the future of CRT rebuilding:

RACS has agreed to publish an official statement in the near future concerning the continuation of CRT rebuild activities. The two brothers must decide this together, it is their prerogative and theirs alone so i will make no speculations.

In the meantime, the CRT rebuild process is being documented in every way possible, notes, written report, photographs and now HD video.

An HD camcorder will be used starting this upcoming monday to shoot everything live - continuously running camera on a tripod. The video footage will go back to the US under the form of the raw files on SD memories for editing (Dave Sica?) ETF archiving and DVD distribution via Nick.

Starting monday, the entire rebuild process from raw glass to finished CRT will be shot. It will include washing & preparation, screen layering, aluminization sputtering, graphiting, neck operations, gun mounting, vacuum pumping, getter flashing, Cathode activation & quality control/burn-in soak test.

Also planned will be documenting the gun rebuild process: taking apart, Filament/Cathode/Getter replacement, rebuild of the electron lens structure, mounting on a new base/stem assembly.

The camcorder is staying at the RACS plant to shoot the 15G fritting process as 9x 15GP22 CRTS are currently at the factory.

The road to the future, ETF CRT plant planning:

After eventual closure, RACS will donate for the price of scrap metal any equipment desired.

My assessment after lengthy discussions between the R. brothers, Nick & myself is that the following equipment should be saved for ETF installation: Washing, screen coating station, aluminum sputtering stations. Also needed are at least one Hydrogen/Oxygen burning neck/base station (H/O2 is much cleaner than Butane/Propane gas), 2 programmable electric ovens, 2 vacuum pumps, QC gear, all gun rebuild parts and tooling, P4 phosphors and maintenance manuals for the saved machines.
Also any usable raw glass bulbs to make 9"/12"/16" imitation Pre-War CRTs.

This means at least one container's content to be shipped by cargo boat to the US.

Installation at the ETF: layout of the plant, site preparation - electrical, H/O2/ gas distribution, etc. François R. RACS's technical manager would accept to travel to Columbus to set up, calibrate and help with Plant restart.

All this means we will need money. We need to have a PR rep, a short video presentation to present the project, probably a web site and some serious lobbying to get funds.

While Nick finishes his 8 years in the Navy before retirement, it would be great to get the brand-new Nashville co. home rebuild plant currently at the ETF up and running so that he can practice maybe on a once-per-year basis what he has learned at RACS to not loose his skills and start training interested volunteers.

Also within those 8 years, the ex-Hawkeye gear could be progressively revived.

All this will take a lot of time, energy, goodwill and funding. I believe it's doable and a worthwhile project, after all a lot of seemingly weird projects manage to attract attention and funds.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

Side Notes:

RACS can be contacted by Mail here: racs2 AT wanadoo.fr
English understood.

Phone: + 33.466.60.78.18
Fax: + 33.466.60.86.39
Contact: Philippe RAEDERSDORFF

Reminder: I help RACS on an entirely volunteer basis, no $$ involved.

One of the problems in continuing this activity is obtaining CRT parts such as Filaments, Cathodes, Getters. RACS has a huge inventory but it is not infinite. So far, sources have been USA & UK but others must be investigated in Asia/India where active production is still going on.
Western companies want out. As a consequence,prices take a steep hike. Just yesterday Southwest Vacuum (USA) quoted RACS a x4 price increase to rebuild some gun models. RACS can rebuild guns entirely in-house but used Southwest & other companies as a convenience to go faster on volume rebuilds.

In the days to come i will post to my PhotoBucket site pictures of the RACS plant and of the equipment to save.

[mpatoray]

Jerome,

That is some great information you have collected, also the assessment of the equipment needs is a very good thing. I thank you and nick and all of those involved for all of your hard work too keep this art alive!

Matt

[jhalphen]

Hi to All,

Matt, Thank you!

To complete previous posts:
Why am i strongly suggesting the screen coating facilities be transfered to the ETF?

Well because vintage CRTs coming in for rebuild seldom have a mint phosphor layer. Ion burns - sometimes huge, reduced light emission because of electron bombardment for decades, screen marks showing up as raster rectangles, pattern/text burn-in or a dark horizontal line across the screen in the event of V scan failure are all pretty common defects.

It would be a shame to give a new lease on life to vintage CRTs while keeping a damaged screen, only doing half the job really.

A "How-To" Book:
Mr Raedersdorff-father, the Brother's Dad and founder of RACS was a high level scientist at Corning Glass France. When he started RACS, he wrote an all-practical "Cookbook" on CRT rebuilding and every worker was given a copy. It is invaluable data, full of drawings and good/bad instructions on how to do things right.
35 years after RACS started, François R. still keeps his Dad's book handy in the Lab.

ONE copy remains, i saw it. The Bros. want us to have this essential info. I asked that they make a copy by any media convenient to them: photocopy, Scan, etc. This is a faded blue ink document somewhat akin to a blueprint. It is in French, so will need to be translated. An English version existed in the past but was apparently lost in the last flood, 2006, 5 ft of water in the plant :-(

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

[Einar72]

Jerome,

It is wonderful news to hear there is a master manual on the CRT rebuilding process. I'm sure translation will be accomplished once the text is made available and a qualified translator is contracted to do it. Yes, I am willing to contribute to the cost. Having worked for CGG/Sercel (HQ in Nantes), I understand first-hand that the causal French taught in school here is insufficient when confronted with technical words and phrases used in electronic engineering.

Nick,

Has the 16A proposal going forward or not? I see others are willing to buy one besides myself...

[miniman82]

If you guys want tubes, I will speak to Filipe tomorrow. To ensure they get built, we would need to transfer some money this week- probably via Paypal.

[Einar72]

Sounds good to me! Would it be best to take the details to private message status - since it involves $..?

[zenithfan1]

If the money has to be in this week, I can't do it. It would be a few weeks at best.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Thank you, Jerome and Nick, for your work documenting and learning the CRT rebuilding process and details for the future. I am glad to know how much RACS and the Raedersdorff brothers are willing to pass on their expertise.

[miniman82]

Yesterday Filipe had his worker check their stock, and he told me they have closer to 16 metal tubes in stock. So we can have a lot of new metal tubes, if you guys need them.

[Einar72]

Does he have a batch size in mind, or will he do a one-at-a-time? I'm hoping others will make their interest heard right about now.