Questions on HDMI 720 and 1080 stretched 4.3

[kramden66]

I have a recorder that has hdmi output upconvert and you can select 480 , 720 , 1080 , and when its in 480 through the hdmi 4.3 is 4.3 but when set to 720 or 1080 it artificialy stretches the image , circles are no longer circles , people are shorter and wider , i tried changing all the various settings in the dvd but it doesn't make a change , now is this the dvd fault or is the tv at fault or is this just an hdmi thing ? i know people who can 1080 and still retain the 4.3 with spaces on the side of the screen , but i can't , so do i need a specific player or tv or both ? i even tried it to do it on a 36" tube hd sony tv and still get the stretch with spaces at the top and bottom - artificial widescreen or letterbox if you prefer , so whats the deal do i need a specific player to play 4.3 and still have 4.3 at 1080 or tv that does it , the settings in the tv sets make no difference either.

thanks
mike

[ChrisW6ATV]

Since you said it is a recorder, then make sure you use a store-bought DVD for the tests. You have two or three things to get matched up. First, is the TV a widescreen set? Next, are you entirely talking about the video as seen through the HDMI, and not any of the other outputs? If so, then with the player set to 720 or 1080, since most store-bought discs are of widescreen movies, the picture should be correct. Let us know if all of this is true. Then, from there, maybe there is a separate issue with "home-recorded" DVDs, but that is another step past the basics above.

[kramden66]

Store bought dvds that are 4.3 , tv is a widescreen set , if you set it to 480 its still 4.3 but quality is not as good as using svhs input , if you switch to 720 or 1080 the quality is better but it stretches the image filling out the screen , tv setts make no difference , settings in recorder make no difference , dors the same thing on a 4.3 sony 36" hdtv , if you play a current tv show that is widescreen it fills the widescreen but its not stretched , if you go through svhs then you get normal acpects of 4.3 to 4.3 but its not upconverting so you can't select 480 , 720 or 1080 , thats only through the hdmi.

i have no other machine with hdmi and upconvert , i'm starting to think its the recorder since my brother has a blue ray player and can 1080 and still retain 4.3 with spaces on the side , i'm hoping this is the case , just figured you guys would have more of a clue

mike

[andy]

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[kramden66]

yeah i tried 16.9 , 4.3 pan and scan and the other 4.3 setting on the dvd recorder and no change , no change if i go 1080i or 1080p either , so i figure if it does this on two different tv sets especialy one that is an hdtv tube thats 4.3 only no wide screen there then it must be the dvd , i suppose its time to upgrade to a bluray anyway , my brothers will do 4.3 in 1080i or 1080p with out artificial stretching and black bars on the sides, the only other way would be to mess with the horizontal size and vertical size in the tv and thats not as easy to do as with a 1940's-1970's tv.

mike

[kramden66]

For what its worth i tried the following , i hooked the hd cable box with the hdmi , channels that are supposed to be 4.3 show up 4.3 , channels that are wide fill up the screen , so tried this with the 36" sony 4.3 tube hd set , channels through the hdmi that are 4.3 show up 4.3 , channels that are wide show wiudescreen with proper proportions , and somechannels show space at the top and bottom and on the sides with a reduced image on the screen , so in conclusion it must be the dvd recorder that is at fault , or maybe i'm missing something , i will find out when i get a blu-ray player like my brother has , if not happy theres always the componenant and s video connectors

mike

mike

[ChrisW6ATV]

Mike-

Part of the problem is, you are mixing up several related but different problems and challenges. Let me see if I can separate them and see where we get:

Originally Posted by kramden66

Store bought dvds that are 4.3 , tv is a widescreen set

OK, so you want to watch 4:3 discs on a 16:9 display. Got it. (4:3 discs are typically TV-show sets, or older pre-1960 movies.)

if you set it to 480 its still 4.3 but quality is not as good as using svhs input

Stop here a moment. If you want to go from HDMI to the s-video ("SVHS") output on the recorder, be sure you switch the recorder to "480i" (and not "480p", and not "progressive" mode if it has it) first. Then, set the recorder's menu "TV type" or "display" to 16:9, and not "4:3", not "standard", not "4:3 letterbox". Now, look at the picture from your 4:3 DVD on the TV with the TV using its s-video input, and try each "aspect ratio" setting available on the TV's remote control, usually one button that can cycle among several settings. It might be called "picture size" or something similar. Likely, the one you want --when in s-video mode on the TV-- is "wide", or it may be called "full".

if you switch to 720 or 1080 the quality is better but it stretches the image filling out the screen

There is a BIG catch here. That aspect ratio button generally only keeps its setting for one mode (s-video, but not HDMI, for example), and for one resolution (so that, if you are on HDMI already but you change the player's setting from 480 to 720, for example, the TV may also change its aspect-ratio setting, without even telling you). Remember, any time you are NOT using HDMI, do NOT set the player to anything but "480i", even if it lets you.

tv sets make no difference , settings in recorder make no difference , does the same thing on a 4:3 sony 36" hdtv

Please stop here again. Do NOT try any of this on that 4:3 HD set yet at all, until you get everything clear on the widescreen set. I owned one of those Sony 4:3 HD sets, and they can be a nightmare to figure out the aspect ratio stuff-and I do this for a living!

if you play a current tv show that is widescreen it fills the widescreen but its not stretched

Now, though, you have switched to another disc and/or source (live TV?) and/or input (a cable or satellite box?). If that widescreen show is not on a DVD, then ignore it now to keep this simpler.

if you go through svhs then you get normal aspects of 4.3 to 4.3 but its not upconverting so you can't select 480 , 720 or 1080 , thats only through the hdmi

Again, lets get the player and TV set up as described above and see what happens, before changing settings or inputs (or discs). In most cases, each time you want to change outputs from a player (such as from HDMI to s-video), you have to change ALL of these settings again-in the player's menus in two different places, AND on the TV.

i have no other machine with hdmi and upconvert , i'm starting to think its the recorder since my brother has a blue ray player and can 1080 and still retain 4.3 with spaces on the side , i'm hoping this is the case , just figured you guys would have more of a clue

mike

Ideally, the player would look best when set in 1080i (or 1080p, it does not matter much with DVDs usually) mode, with HDMI hooked up, the player set to display type 16:9, and the TV aspect ratio set to "normal". Most players and widescreen TV sets I have used will play all discs properly when everything is set as I just described.

Let us know what you get with the settings I mentioned first, in s-video mode.

[ChrisW6ATV]

One more thing:

Originally Posted by kramden66

if you go through svhs then you get normal acpects of 4.3 to 4.3 but its not upconverting so you can't select 480 , 720 or 1080 , thats only through the hdmi.

ALL HD displays-even that 4:3 Sony one-do their own internal "upconverting". They HAVE to, to match whatever gets plugged into them with the TV's own specific display circuits and components. LCDs bigger than 32 inches are almost all 1080p, so they all "upconvert" to 1080p unless the input itself was already 1080p (such as a Blu-ray player). External devices such as "upconverting HDMI" DVD players may or may not do any better at that job than the TV would do by itself.

[Phototone]

"Some" upconverting DVD players allow you to display 4:3 material (upconverted) in 1080i, or 1080p without stretching. There is a setting in a menu for this. Also some BluRay players can do the same. You would find the setting in the "picture" menu of the machine. My Sony BluRay player was factory set to "fill" a 16:9 screen with picture regardless of the original aspect ratio of the disc, however a simple menu selection brought the player into compliance, and now it plays 4:3 material on my wide-screen TV correctly, all over HDMI, with black pillar box effect. Both my much older Oppo upconverting DVD player, and my almost new Sony BluRay player had to be set to do this, otherwise they stretch all.

The older Sony CRT style 4:3 HD TV's have a menu selection to set for full screen, or Letterboxed widescreen from 16:9 ratio recordings. These older Sony sets only have Component inputs for HD.

[kramden66]

well i got a lg bd640 bluray player and it plays 4.3 like its supposed to with spaces on the sides and things aren't artificialy stretched , you can change the settings in the player to do that if you want but no matter what you do with the recorder it stretches 4.3 , this is through the hdmi, so the fault is and was the dvd recorder , thanks for the assistance

mike

[ChrisW6ATV]

Good to know you got a player with the right aspect ratio ability. Those stretched-out shows on some widescreen sets drive me absolutely nuts, almost as bad as "full-screen" movies did on 4:3 displays.