Emerson TV, Can't Figure out What Year This Is?

[Electronic M]

Two rules for selecting replacement caps when exact replacements are not available: you can fudge the capacitance by 10%(in most cases) with papers(and to higher %s with lytics), and you can always put in a capacitor with a higher voltage rating than the original (but NEVER go lower).

Most circuits expect a 10-30% on most parts (Lytics could have 50% tolerance back in the day). Capacitors voltage rating is for the maximum voltage that can be safely applied with out blowing them. You could replace a 50V 10,000pF cap with a 50,000V 10,000pF high voltage door knob cap and it would work fine provided you could find the space to mount the larger doorknob cap.

[Magnavox300]

Originally Posted by old_coot88

As a RCA/Dumont/Emerson dealership back in the day, we used to sell Emersons with that same chassis in 'em.
They developed a problem of unstable sync/AGC, caused by a single small electrolytic cap (I forget the exact value and voltage). It was silvery colored, located on the pc board in the area indicated.
See if yours has that cap.

Thanks for the tip... That's neat you used to work for a dealership back then.
I checked, and no electrolytics on the PC board anywhere.
Just two large multi cans below...I just ordered all new ones today.

Cleaned up the heavy polished brass control plate and knobs...
It was this cool looking plate that made me think the set was from the 50's. Seemed to me that by '63, they were cutting back on such serious detail on sets...

The other thing is I can't find is a schematic for this set:
the tag from the CRT has the model# 1668
and the Chassis# 549C-566B
but I can't find either on the Sam's website, or anywhere else?
Actually Sam's has an Emerson 1668, but in the tiny photo, it looks like a completely different set, so I'm just not sure.

[Eric H]

According to the Sams index it should be folder 502-1.

It's downloadable from Sams for $15.00 but you may be able to get an original copy cheaper from John Kendall at Vintage Electronics
http://www.vintage-electronics.com/ $8 shipped if he has one in stock, ask before ordering to make sure.

The set may look different but the Sams may cover several different models with the same basic chassis.

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by Magnavox300

I thought as much...
I suppose it's crazy to do all this work, and take a chance with vintage caps;
Just bought the ones you suggested from Mouser...

I'm assuming It's totally fine to use the higher 1600V to substitute the .0039 1000V?

Thanks for the links!!

Yes, with capacitors always remember equal or larger working voltage is fine, or better in some cases. Your case for instance; the engineers called for a 1Kv cap and you pop in the 1.6K. Obviously the larger value caps are going to be more rugged and possibly hold out a bit better. On the down side, doing this across the board of all of your replacements would be non cost efficient.

As well you can go larger on the capacitance value, but you don't want to change that a whole lot. Much depends on the circuit really. The main thing is NEVER go lower with your values.

[StellarTV]

Yes '63 would have been right about right for that pre-multiplex Simulcast tuner. 50s black and white CRTS were never that square.

Also, that record changer is a very well engineered unit made by Philco. The idler wheel has a clutch in it that works with the rest of the mechanism to 'pause' the turntable platter during the change/drop cycle. Pretty spiffy!

[Magnavox300]

Originally Posted by Eric H

According to the Sams index it should be folder 502-1.

It's downloadable from Sams for $15.00 but you may be able to get an original copy cheaper from John Kendall at Vintage Electronics
http://www.vintage-electronics.com/ $8 shipped if he has one in stock, ask before ordering to make sure.

The set may look different but the Sams may cover several different models with the same basic chassis.

Thanks, went with the Sam's, and you were right, same chassis for different models... The schematic I downloaded shows a 21" screen, and mine is a 23".
At first I thought I got the wrong schematic, but it looks identical so far.
Thanks for the good advise!

[Magnavox300]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

Two rules for selecting replacement caps when exact replacements are not available: you can fudge the capacitance by 10%(in most cases) with papers(and to higher %s with lytics), and you can always put in a capacitor with a higher voltage rating than the original (but NEVER go lower).

Most circuits expect a 10-30% on most parts (Lytics could have 50% tolerance back in the day). Capacitors voltage rating is for the maximum voltage that can be safely applied with out blowing them. You could replace a 50V 10,000pF cap with a 50,000V 10,000pF high voltage door knob cap and it would work fine provided you could find the space to mount the larger doorknob cap.

Always good to know; I recently had to buy a .05 400V cap, but I only had a 1000V one, and thought the voltage was too much.
Thanks for explaining there is no limit to the voltage.

As far as electrolytics, in multi cans when you have for example:
80uf @ 350v
40uf @ 350v
100uf @ 50v
Does it matter if the 100uf 50v gets replaced with a 600v?
For some reason I thought I should keep the voltage close...
other than cost and size, it wouldn't matter in the circuit?

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Magnavox300

Actually Sam's has an Emerson 1668, but in the tiny photo, it looks like a completely different set, so I'm just not sure.

One thing to note is that most makers back then put the same electronics in a wide assortment of cabinet options, sometimes having completely different control panel layouts on some models. I have sam's for a couple of my Zenith TV consoles where the screen size, cabinet, AND control panel look nothing like my sets, but from the chassis pictures and technical info it is clear that they are the the correct folders for my sets.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Magnavox300

Thanks for explaining there is no limit to the voltage.

As far as electrolytics, in multi cans when you have for example:
80uf @ 350v
40uf @ 350v
100uf @ 50v
Does it matter if the 100uf 50v gets replaced with a 600v?
For some reason I thought I should keep the voltage close...
other than cost and size, it wouldn't matter in the circuit?

You're welcome. You sure could replace the 100uF 50V with a 100uF 600V and it would work fine. The extra size and cost would probably be a bit on the excessive side (especially if the chassis is cramped or you happen to be as big of a cheapskate as me ), but if you don't mind that there is no other reason not to.

On the smaller caps 50V or less I tend to just yank one from some 90's electronic item in my bone-yard. You can probably grab an assortment of caps that contains several 100uF 50V from Radio Shack for less than a single 100uF 600V cap (though I can say from experience RS don't stock good quality electrolytics).

[Magnavox300]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

You sure could replace the 100uF 50V with a 100uF 600V and it would work fine. The extra size and cost would probably be a bit on the excessive side (especially if the chassis is cramped or you happen to be as big of a cheapskate as me ), but if you don't mind that there is no other reason not to.

Great, now I know! Thanks again...

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by StellarTV

Yes '63 would have been right about right for that pre-multiplex Simulcast tuner. 50s black and white CRTS were never that square.

Also, that record changer is a very well engineered unit made by Philco. The idler wheel has a clutch in it that works with the rest of the mechanism to 'pause' the turntable platter during the change/drop cycle. Pretty spiffy!

I agree with Truetone on post #4. It's a Glaser-Steers changer.
I know, Philco made their own changers in the 40's and 50's. They might've sold it G/S. G/S sold their changer plant to GE in the mid 60's.
I wonder what stereo chassis the set uses. Some Emerson's used a hot chassis PC board, using 300ma tubes.
Had to be all of 2 watts per channel.

[DavGoodlin]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

One thing to note is that most makers back then put the same electronics in a wide assortment of cabinet options, sometimes having completely different control panel layouts on some models. I have sam's for a couple of my Zenith TV consoles where the screen size, cabinet, AND control panel look nothing like my sets, but from the chassis pictures and technical info it is clear that they are the the correct folders for my sets.

I can remember buying Sams photofact sets for about $5.95 at the parts jobber and seeing a set completely unlike the one I was trying to fix, then before I walked out, I pulled out the folder and saw the same tubes.

I have an Emerson 1657 (not a combo) with the same tuner and a fairly good 23CP4, also in Sams 502.
It's speaker is 8" round and below the CRT, same mahogany finish as Magnavox300's

Its possible the capacitor Old Coot Mentions is the screen grid bypass capacitor on pin 8 of the 6AW8 video amp.
This cap caused sync issues in RCA CTC7-9-11-12-16 IIRC

[Magnavox300]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

I wonder what stereo chassis the set uses. Some Emerson's used a hot chassis PC board, using 300ma tubes.
Had to be all of 2 watts per channel.

Here's the amp chassis, I just finished recapping it today...
Those multi-can's are always tough getting out of a PC board, but I got it.
This had 7 electrolytics in all, with a multi-can, a firecracker, and a radial.
Also had three .022 paper's.
Has all the original Dumont tubes.

When I first brought this home, there was a noticeable hum when I turned the radio on.

Now I'm going to refinish the cabinet while I wait for the caps for the TV Chassis...
Not sure if this has actual veneer, or that fake paper Magnavox used, but it looks like veneer...If so, I can scrape it down, sand it, and stain it, which would be great!

[Olorin67]

Looks like your changer has the speedminder feature, it will play at 45rpm with a 7" record, then switch to 33 if it encournters a larger record, so you could actually mix them in one stack. Some G-S changers would also pause the turntable while the next record dropped. on that version of the GS changer the turntable wont even start turning until the needle sets down on the record,

[Jeffhs]

This TV not only has AM-FM simulcast on the AM-FM tuner; it has a decoder for stereo FM as well. Look at the function selector. There is a position plainly marked "FM Stereo." There is a possibility that position is just a switch for an optional FM multiplex decoder which plugs into the chassis, but if the console was made after 1961, the radio is more than likely factory equipped for reception of the then-new stereo FM stations, if the owner's area had them. My best guess is that most of the time, the radio stayed on AM since FM was relatively new in the '60s, with few mono, let alone stereo, stations to be found unless the owner was in or very near a large metropolitan area.