Portholes on eBay

[Down Under]

Hi guys,

I notice there are two Portholes on eBay, which I'm guessing is rare. Out of curiosity, what are these sets like to work on? And how do they perform in terms of reliability? I'd love to have one, as they're a real show stopper. But I have to think about getting spare parts if something unique like a flyback fails, unless it can be rewound. Difficult enough to source in the US, probably impossible for me in AUS. You read about how some brands/models have their various issues, and I wonder what stories are out there regarding these TVs. Also of course the CRT. Do any of the Portholes use metal CRTs? I've heard that they can lose vacuum eventually at the metal/glass seal. All info appreciated.

Cheers,

Adam

[Phil Nelson]

They are not as plentiful as Predictas, but they do seem to be among the more common vintage TVs. Perhaps people kept them around because of the different look, or because they were expensive. When Grandpa spent a lot on something, whether or not it was any good, people tended to keep it.

<begin rant>

This is 100% hearsay, since I have never owned one, but what I have read over the years about other people's experiences in restoring Zenith portholes has made me lose interest in buying one.

They seem to be prone to eating flybacks. Some use a metal CRT, with the attendant concerns about shock hazard and premature failure. Although they do seem to work after careful restoration, I don't recall anyone crowing about the wonderful build quality, or the performance, for that matter..

The porthole screen makes a distinctive look, but I consider it a marketing gimmick. Owing to the rectangular nature of a TV image, you have to choose between showing the full image with lots of blank space on the edges of the circle, or blowing up the image to fill the entire circular screen and losing a lot of picture information on the corners. Neither of those choices appeals to me. Most manufacturers simply used a mask to let you watch the complete image without staring at the dumb unlit edges of the round CRT.

<end of rant>

So, that's my anti-Zenith porthole rant. If someone left a free one on my porch, I might take it, but I have passed up opportunities to buy them and will continue to do so. I know there are people out there who have restored Zenith portholes and are glad they did so. Perhaps one of them will chime in to explain why I'm just being crotchety.

If you feel that you must have one porthole, there are more interesting choices out there, such as a Stromberg-Carlson TC-10. Here's a nice example:

http://www.myvintagetv.com/tc10.htm

Raytheon also made some cute porthole tabletops:

http://www.tvhistory.tv/1946-49-RAYTHEON-BELMONT.htm

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[bandersen]

Agree with the above and would like to add that all the 16" and 19" models use metal CRTs. Many of the 12" as well, but some are all glass. Also, many of the 16" models use the very hard to find 16EP4 rather than the more common 16GP4.

[Sandy G]

Everything Phil said is true, as far as I know. But, as the proud daddy of a 12" Zenith tabletop Porthole, I can only say that the utter sense of "Awe" & "Wow !" that people get when I show it off to them more than makes up for any bad traits it has. It is from a time that even HAVING a TV made you Something Special, & the Zenith's cosmetic design echoes that. It LOOKS impressive, even today, even turned off. "I'm a Magic Box, Look at me CAREFULLY !" it seems to be saying to the jaded denizens of HDTV 2014. Sure, a jellybean $10 set from 10-15 years ago might have a better picture, & shows more of said picture, but that's not the point. A Porthole IS a "Porthole" on a distant past, a time from before most of us were born, a time we usually only get to visit in history books.

[bigaudioal]

I grabbed a 12 inch all glass CRT porthole, "Graemere" model, from Bob Anderson a while back. It's a single chassis, console model - think it's the 12LP4 CRT. I am NOT looking forward to trying to restore it, but it is one AWESOME looking set. Right now it is sitting patiently for me to acquire more experience and confidence in restoration before I tackle it. I did locate a NOS Merit flyback for it and have that tucked away too - just in case.

Worst part about this set is I cannot find a SAMS that has those great reference photos of the chassis in it. It is Zenith model G2346R, chassis 23G22. The only SAMS I can find for it (98-17) seems to show a totally different schematic with dual chassis and a 16 inch CRT. Even though my model and chassis number are listed on the SAMS it is not even close to my set.

I luckily do have the Zenith Service Manual for MY set, which at minimum just has the schematic. So I may have to work on this set with no reference photos that match my chassis, which will be tough for a guy with only a few years experience by the time I get around to this set.

[Eric H]

I've restored just one Zenith Porthole and it was a 10" Mayflower model and it had a bad Flyback. At least it uses a glass CRT.

[Electronic M]

There may be nightmare restoration cases, but there are also ones that refuse to die.

I got one at the ETF some years back for 20$ that was beat to heck, had to have it's CRT rejuvenated back from the dead, and a new audio output tube popped in to replace the missing one. After that, with all original parts except for around 5 of it's original paper caps replaced with maroon drops from a ~60's repair and several tubes that had been replaced way back, I brought it up on a variac. Once I got the voltage up high enough I was greeted with this....



Even in sad cosmetic shape from a hard life, and with nearly all of the original parts still installed that old trooper still could muster a picture and sound about as good as when it rolled off the line....Now THAT is build quality!

[cwmoser]

I love portholes. I have 2 Zenith portholes and one Raytheon porthole.

If you are looking for a relatively easy to restore porthole, I would recommend
the Raytheon. Mine had a very uncluttered chassis and the chassis was
stamped with tube numbers like it was intended to be a kit.

Here is my restoration thread for the Raytheon porthole TV:
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/view...p?f=3&t=193131

Carl

[cwmoser]

Tom, that is an amazing set with mostly original capacitors.

Carl

[old_coot88]

Gotta wonder if the power xfmrs have enough 'extra iron' headroom to be happy running on 50 cycle.

[Down Under]

Thanks very much for all your responses, there a lot of useful info here!

I remember reading about a particular set that had flyback issues, but I wasn't sure which. Now I know! I'd still love to own one of these purely because there was never a circular CRT TV in Australia. We only got tv in the late fifties, so most of the cool designs were out of fashion by then. I also tend to think that set designers in AU were more pragmatic in their approach. Most of the sets here are quite boxy and weren't really made to look like furniture. And of course, it wasn't too long before the rectangular CRT became common, so the rounder tubes didn't last long.

Is there a site where I can find detailed info on these by model? For example, which sets had the metal CRTs, which were more reliable and so on? It makes it a lot easier to decide on any I might spot on eBay. Being in the "wrong hemisphere", I don't have access to all the jumble sales and swap meets that I would die for. Which means that my purchase avenues are very restricted.

The other reason it's good to have reliable info is something I'm sure you're all too familiar with. The sellers on eBay don't know much at all about what there selling or "play dumb" when specific questions are asked. I'm sure that's a global issue! It certainly happens here.

The other useful piece of info of course is schematic availability. I can't even get stuff on the Predictas other than SAMs, (which is still very good). The guy selling the CDs on eBay is not accepting any questions and when I could question him several months back, he wasn't interested in selling to me

Difficulties aside, I'd love to own one, preferably restorable to working condition, to justify the floor space. I'm sure I'd be the only person in the country to own one, which itself is rewarding. It certainly wouldn't get much use, so mains frequency and temperature rise of transformers shouldn't be an issue. Even picture cut off would be acceptable, I won't be watching anything other than vintage B&W movies on it anyway.

Last point, is it possible to rewind flybacks? Has anyone ever done this themselves or employed a company to try? I've seen the posts about rebuilt CRTs, and the interest in resurrecting this process. But flyback repair seems to be another important aspect because they too are unique and vital to keep a set running.

Just my rambling...


Adam

[Phil Nelson]

Originally Posted by Down Under

Is there a site where I can find detailed info on these by model?

Sort of, but not all in one place and you'll have to do some homework yourself.

Many models listed here (some might be missing for all I know):

http://www.tvhistory.tv/1950-59-ZENITH.htm

Manuals listed here (same caveat):

http://www.earlytelevision.org/tv_sc...ms_pw_n-z.html

Tube data listed here:

http://tubedata.milbert.com/index.html

The manuals are listed by chassis number, not model number. If you look at a Zenith manual such as that for chassis 23G22, you'll find near the beginning a list that cross-references about 15 model numbers and chassis numbers. Elsewhere in the manual you'll see what CRT a particular chassis uses. Other manuals have more info.

So, you can look at some pictures and say, "Hey, I love this model," and with luck, figure out what chassis and CRT it uses. Then, using the third link, you can look up the CRT's data sheet and read the description to find out if it has a metal or glass envelope. Or, it's possible the manual itself might mention what sort of envelope the CRT has; I haven't read all of those manuals from cover to cover.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Down Under]

Thanks very much Phil,

You're a legend! By the way, I've ordered some rest clips from eBay to facilitate work on the Holiday. I'll post pics of them when I've assembled them into leads for running the board away from the chassis. Of course, it will be a rats nest with all the wires in place and I'll have to be careful to avoid shorts.

Cheers and thanks again,

Adam

[cwmoser]

Shipping to Australia would be quite expensive - just guessing.
That along with building a protective crate.
I'm curious, have you got a rough estimate of the cost?

Carl

[kvflyer]

G'day Adam. I bought one of these sets at a local antique shop many years ago and it is still in queue for restoration. The CRT was just about zero emission and I bought a rebuilt one from a member of the Antique Radio Forum. But as mentioned above, the flybacks seem to be toasted in many of them.

Below is a picture of the flyback in mine. Mind you, I have not tried to apply power yet. I was able to get a Merit brand replacement just in case this one is bad. (Fat chance it is good!!!) It has a 10 AMP fuse in the horizontal section. Any guess why this flyback became so charred? And being below the chassis certainly adds to the heat.



And the set which has a 12" CRT, 12LP4:



So, hope that if you are able to get one, I could pop in and visit with you on my next trip to Melbourne.

Cheers Mate!