Asbestos in Emerson.

[JohnCT]

Hey all, I've run into something I've never seen before. It's a pre-war AC/DC Emerson with an asbestos sheet tucked around the inside of the top of the compact wood cabinet.

Is there any way to encapsulate it? Remove it and replace it with some other insulation? Ignore it?

This is a very compact radio and the guy who wants it restored intends to use it, and I believe it will need some sort of insulation to protect the veneer and finish.




John

[maxhifi]

I would probably walk away from this, if it was for a customer. There is no obvious substitute, and the asbestos is clearly a hazard. That said, it doesn't really look original to me, one would think it would cut and installed more neatly if it was OEM. I'm guessing an owner installed it.

[JohnCT]

Originally Posted by maxhifi

I would probably walk away from this, if it was for a customer. There is no obvious substitute, and the asbestos is clearly a hazard. That said, it doesn't really look original to me, one would think it would cut and installed more neatly if it was OEM. I'm guessing an owner installed it.

Interesting. The sheet was definitely not die cut. It also was never attached to the cabinet, so you might be right that it was added later.

I don't have much experience in these compact cabinet radios; would a radio of this era usually have heat abatement?

John

[maxhifi]

Originally Posted by JohnCT

Interesting. The sheet was definitely not die cut. It also was never attached to the cabinet, so you might be right that it was added later.

I don't have much experience in these compact cabinet radios; would a radio of this era usually have heat abatement?

John

Maybe. You could buy asbestos sheet in hardware stores back then though, and this looks to me like someone felt the radio getting hot and decided to stick a sheet in there. The sloppy uneven installation and rough edge gives me that idea. The rough edge also looks capable of spreading asbestos into the room. Maybe leave this one until masks are once again available

[Electronic M]

What I'd do is take it outside on a windy day and with the set down wind from me yank the asbestos and round file it, then restore the set without it... I've found 90% of factory installed asbestos is unnecessary and don't replace it when I remove it....I only remove it when it's not well attached like in your set.

[JohnCT]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

What I'd do is take it outside on a windy day and with the set down wind from me yank the asbestos and round file it, then restore the set without it... I've found 90% of factory installed asbestos is unnecessary and don't replace it when I remove it....I only remove it when it's not well attached like in your set.

I actually did that this morning. I took it outside along with a large zip lock bag and put the sheet in the bag, then I washed my hands.

Any feelings on gluing some foil to to the cabinet to reflect the IR heat at least?

John

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by JohnCT

I actually did that this morning. I took it outside along with a large zip lock bag and put the sheet in the bag, then I washed my hands.

Any feelings on gluing some foil to to the cabinet to reflect the IR heat at least?

John

The foil could be a double edged sword if there's a loop antenna in that set since it could shield the antenna or create disruptive RF reflections...if the set does not use a loop antenna and instead has an ant terminal you might be able to hook it up and use it....also if the foil.is in there good it will be hard to remove and put back to original, but if it is not in there good it could fall and short stuff...your call if you want it.

[old_tv_nut]

How about subbing a piece of silicone BBQ grill mat?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Heavy-Dut...xoCbFAQAvD_BwE

[MadMan]

Good man! You just dealt with it. As for a replacement, perhaps a woven fiberglass sheet? If you don't intend to run the set for hours on end, I don't think it even needs anything.

EDIT: oh yeah, silicone BBQ mat, not a bad idea at all. Maybe two layers of it?

[init4fun]

A question for John , I see in the picture the back of the set isn't there . Do you have it and it just wasn't in the picture , or will the set run without it because it's been long lost before your customer got the set ?

If it's gonna run with the back as open as the picture shows , I wouldn't worry in the least about heat mitigation ....

[JohnCT]

Originally Posted by init4fun

A question for John , I see in the picture the back of the set isn't there . Do you have it and it just wasn't in the picture , or will the set run without it because it's been long lost before your customer got the set ?

If it's gonna run with the back as open as the picture shows , I wouldn't worry in the least about heat mitigation ....

Yes, the back came with the radio. Strangely, it's a nicely finished piece of wood like the rest of the cabinet and was held in with probably 8 countersunk wood screws.

Thanks for the advice above guys! In no particular order:

No, no loop antenna. This is a long wire deal so the foil won't interfere.

Yes, there's a chance the foil may someday peel away and fall, so I think the foil is off the table.

The fiberglass mat and the BBQ mat are good ideas, I'll consider them when the time comes. I'll run the radio for a couple of hours and see how how the top gets. If it doesn't get hot, I'll leave it out.

Right now, my focus will be trying to identify the model as some work was done under the deck and doesn't seem right. There's no model number on this old boy at all. The rear cover has a nice metal Emerson plate rivited on it, but no model number. No tube chart inside the cabinet and I don't see any evidence it ever had one.

John

[init4fun]

Hi John , show us a picture of the front of it , perhaps someone will know it's model number . Also , and hopefully the other guys will help jog my memory , I recall using a website in the past that you entered the manufacturer and the numbers on all the tubes and it came up with model numbers from that manufacturer that used those same tubes , maybe someone can point you to that site ?

From your first pic I see that the power cord appears to be not run in what I'd expect to be it's factory location , I'd think it should be running into the empty hole on the chassis in the right had side of the picture (with a rubber grommet in the hole protecting the cord , of course) . If there is strange wiring it could involve someone in the past replacing the "curtain burner" power cord (if it originally used one as lots of small 1930s radios did) , this was a cord that incorporated a resistance built in to drop the 110 Volts to the amount needed by the tube's heaters . When the resistance cords deteriorate a common repair is to use either a resistor or a capacitor* to drop the excess voltage .

* capacitor being preferred as it doesn't get hot like a resistor does while dropping the excess voltage .

[old_coot88]

I was wondering about the dropper too. If there's a big wirewound resistor in there somewhere, maybe that's why the asbestos was added. What are the tube types?

Ceiling fan speed control capacitors are excellent for dropper duty in radios, and produce no heat.

[jr_tech]

Perhaps similar to this model 32?

https://mcclellans.com/Emerson32Restoration.htm


https://www.google.com/search?q=emer...i0Uox2sbtPN9aM

jr

[JohnCT]

Wow, thanks for all the help.

Right now, it's not a curtain burner. It has a conventional AC cord which is not original, but it is a cloth cord in excellent shape.

There is indeed a stand up resistor mounted between the tubes on the top deck. I haven't really looked into it but I'll see if it seems to be a factory installed resistor or added in.

I did an RCA curtain burner a few years ago and swapped in 8uf worth of film caps (plasma TV sustain boards are full of film caps of high value) and installed a conventional cord so that's an option here to remove the high wattage resistor.

Under the deck, it has several of the tubular paper caps paralleled with smaller value micromold caps that are not the typical square ones, but bullet shaped. They are cleanly installed and I can't tell if they're factory or not. Also, a couple of these same caps are in series with larger paper caps. I think a schematic would be really helpful on this one.

Also, I have heard of micromold resistors, but have never seen one. Are these bakelite molded cases like the capacitors, or are micromold resistors conventional in shape and markings?


Yes, it looks a lot like the model in jr_tech's post!

I'll take a picture of it when I get to work today and post it.

Thanks everyone.

John

EDIT: Looking at the link that jr sent, this looks a lot like it although the tube complement is a bit different. The picture does show a stand up resistor so the one in mine is probably factory installed - so maybe the heat barrier was also factory installed or at least replaced with that poorly fitted asbestos sheet along with the power cord years ago.