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#1
08-09-2006, 03:18 PM
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Hold on to your old CRT TVs; HD only by 2007?
Was watching the early morning news on TV today and saw an interesting report on NBC's Early Today show. It was from CNBC Europe and stated that, in paraphrase, the CRT-based television receiver (NTSC, 4:3 aspect ratio) is on its way out; production of standard televisions with CRTs will eventually end, leaving consumers no choice but to buy plasma or LCD flat panel sets if they want to replace their old reliable CRT-based model. The report did not specify exactly when production of standard TVs would cease; however, production of standard-definition TV sets (SDTVs) would probably continue for those of us who, like myself, cannot afford a huge flat-panel TV at this time. I suppose I could get a small FP set with a 15-inch screen (my apartment is too small for a 54-inch rear-projection or plasma/LCD set anyhow) and probably will, if push comes to shove. However, I don't see how my present 19" CRT sets, a Zenith Sentry 2 in my bedroom and my RCA CTC185 in the living room, will become obsolete any time soon as long as I use a digital cable box ahead of the set, as I have been with the RCA for several years now. I am fully aware that I will not be viewing HD programming as HD on a 4:3 analog set, even with a digital cable box, but as long as I can still get the programming my cable operator provides (Time Warner Cable replaced Comcast in my area last week), I won't be concerned about viewing a 16:9 picture on a 4:3 analog set (with the blank spaces above and below the picture, as many shows now telecast in HD already appear on analog TVs, so I am more or less used to it by now).
A question: I was browsing ebay the other evening and saw a listing for a used flat-panel TV. The caption below the picture of the set (in the ebay list view) stated that, again in paraphrase, the FCC is mandating HDTV by 2007, so grab this set now! I thought the digital changeover was supposed to be in early 2009. Did the FCC move up the date again? I realize that all new TVs will be required to have ATSC tuners by next year, but I was not aware that analog TV transmission would cease by 2007 as well. I read in the paper today, and saw on the noon news on TV, that the FCC is already auctioning off RF spectrum space ("the airwaves" to most people outside our hobby, including TV newscasters). I wonder if some of these frequencies might not be certain television channels; has the FCC begun auctioning off the UHF band, for example, those channels above channel 50 and ending at 69?  If so, I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end for analog television. FM radio may well be next, as many major cities (including Cleveland) have at least one "high definition" FM station; but that's a topic for one of the audio forums.
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Jeff, WB8NHV Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002 Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten. 
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#2
08-09-2006, 03:25 PM
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There are so many variations on what they've actually let go publically. Congress is shooting for one thing, the House of Reps another. It's all about the government wanting back the analog bandwidth that's been used for OTA (over the air) transmission of local channels all these past years. It really started with that with High Definition being an "extra" when they were talking about going digital. The main thing to remember is this...people that use satellite receivers or cable boxes are safe for many years. The main people that will have to worry are those that watch TV with ONLY an outdoor antenna and are receiving the NTSC (analog) broadcast. Once they "flip the switch" and go to ATSC only, then they will either have to get a new TV to take advantage of the better picture quality OR they will have to get an ATSC decoder box that down converts the digital signal to analog for those people. Who knows. They've been working on this for over 10 years now and the dates have constantly changed. The news is just now starting to cover it more. Seems like they would do more of it because it affects the local stations because of the millions they have to spend on tower upgrades for digital. And it goes on and on and on. Kind of like a legal soap opera. haha
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"....we can clone sheep, but we apparently can't make a short paper tube without a raised seam." A quote from Art Dudley, Stereophile, Oct 2008, in regards to Lowther coil/coil formers.
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#3
08-09-2006, 03:42 PM
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#4
08-09-2006, 10:53 PM
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Part of the issue with Congress involves FCC rebanding efforts to move existing UHF services in the 700MHz and 800MHz band and consolidate Public Safety from the cellular band. Of course, it takes lots of money to move incumbants from one part of the spectrum to another...this has an impact on target dates for future HDTV spectrum allocation.
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#5
08-10-2006, 01:30 AM
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The most recent info I have seen says spring of 2009 is the end of analog. Big TVs need to include a digital tuner now, small sets, I dont know the timeline. I'm not sure there is one for small sets yet. It seems they can't decide on anything easily. There are some in congress pushing to have analog shut off by the end of this year. IMHO, it ain't gonna happen.
TVTechnology.com is an interesting place to read about the newest in TV. It's intended for the broadcast side of the industry, but contains tons of information. As for CRTs, I think they are going away. I recently read where Sony is shutting down most of its CRT manufacturing. I guess they went into partnership with Samsung building flat panels. Mitsubishi quit making CRTs years ago. I think Panasonic pulled the plug on CRTs last year. I figure tubes will hang on for maybe 10 years, but mostly for low-end stuff. especially near the end. After that, it'll be up to us to keep the memory of the CRT alive. We'll be able to amaze youngsters with the magic of the big glass funnel that makes pictures, just like we do with rabbit ears now. "How'd you get a picture?! You didn't even hook up the cable!!!" (I love doing that. Confuses the hell out of them) 
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#6
08-10-2006, 02:09 AM
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A strong inside source at KTLA (oldest TV broadcaster in Los Angeles since the late 30s when they were W6XYZ), told me that they would still broadcast regular old signals for a LONG time to come. They have also been broadcasting HD for about 7 years concurrently.
I will be VERY surprised if analog TV disappears any time soon. Charles
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#8
08-10-2006, 03:35 AM
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There's quite a bit of grumbling in the TV business about the lack of CRT's as well. Although they are space wasters, they do have a few advantages still. First and foremost is that they reproduce colors accurately. It can be difficult to get a flat screen of the common technologies available reproducing colors correctly. Secondly, many of them introduce a delay between the picture and sound. Usually its only a frame or so delay, but that can be enough to drive someone crazy when you're trying to set something up correctly.
David
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#9
08-10-2006, 09:17 AM
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I hate that frame delay. I sometimes seee it over analog broadcasts (which of course have mountains of digital processing at the broadcast end). I read where it is a real thorn in the side of broadcast engineers. I guess that it isn't noticeable if the audio is one or two frames late, but if audio leads video by even one frame people really notice it.
As for CRTs, they are still my preferred display device, despite the size and weight. I've noticed Costco only has a few CRT sets on the shelf already. Too bad. Hey look! I'm actually posting something without using a smiley!
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#10
08-10-2006, 05:19 PM
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The standard calls for broadcasting the HDTV signal with the 4:3 ratio signal incorporated within it so all that should be needed is a digital to analog converter.
The frame delay is a real PITA, TV conferencing systems have dealt with the problem of lip sync for years and TV should do the same. We watched this at our son's place last weekend and it is a real distraction. Rob
__________________
 Some people are like Slinkies, not really good for anything. They do bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
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#11
08-11-2006, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
-Steve D.
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Please visit my CT-100, CTC-5, vintage color tv site: http://www.wtv-zone.com/Stevetek/
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#12
08-11-2006, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Charles
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#13
08-14-2006, 01:27 AM
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Lets not forget SVGA monitors. They might not be best for viewing widescreen, but they work pretty decently at 1080i. They are cheap or free, and most of the time people cannot give them away because no one wants them, but they reproduce colors accurately and look great when connected to an ATSC tuner viewing something in 1080i or 720p. And some don't work with 1080i, but the newer ones do.
And yes, I have not yet seen anything that looks as good as CRT. It might be an old technology, heavy, and takes up tons of space, but produces the best picture of all the alternate display technologies today. And forget what sellers on ebay say, they are full of crap.  LONG LIVE CRT!!! Jonathan
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#14
08-14-2006, 10:04 AM
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OH MY GOD!! WHAT A GARBAGE PICTURE!! The colors were horrible, lots of red bleeding, other colors were weak. Sharpness was non-existant... It looked like I was watching a low-res MPEG. Add to that, he had a dish... Pixelation up the wazoo, and all kinds of frame delays. Sometimes, I felt like I was watching a mechanical TV, the 1/4" sized scan lines were so obvious! The worst part came when one of the other goobers at the party walked in and said "Wow, that TV sure has a nice picture!"  This same guy stuffed a garbage disposal full of chicken bones at last years party, so you can imagine how sharp he is!  Meanwhile, my '77 Zenith Chromacolor daily watcher has such a sharp, realistic picture with such balanced colors and true blacks, that it looks like you could reach into it.. This is with the OTA signal. To think it's being made obsolete by junk such as above, is to be sick!
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From Captain Video, 1/4/2007 "It seems that Italian people are very prone to preserve antique stuff." Last edited by Carmine; 08-14-2006 at 10:08 AM.
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#15
08-14-2006, 10:49 AM
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Since you mention pixelation, I'll take my turn to rant on that. I hate satellite because of it. Especially if there are a lot of things moving in the picture. The system has to throw away so much that it looks awful. You know the look. BAsketball games look like you're watching through a light rain of sand as they players run back and forth. I worked in a small studio as junior engineer (very junior) back in about 1980, and I would have been fired on the spot if I had sent that quality down the line. Same thing with so-called "analog" tvs. Especially projection sets. They may be an analog set, but there's some digital going on on the signal board, and I can spot it a mile away. YUCK!
 First time I noticed the loss on satellite was at a customers house in about 1995, and he had CNN on. Reporter outside the fence at the white house, and 2 people walking in the distance, beside the building. They would pop in and out of existence as they passed details of the building. I thought I was loosing my eyesight for a second. I think I already said something about frame delay, so I wont again. (oops. I just did) Time to go to work
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